HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

[Polak]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

E and I are kin as much as I and R are kin.



Actually looking at the nomenclature doesn't suggestes anything like that.

Actually, I is closer to E than R.

[Alkman]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

HLA genes in Macedonians and the sub-Saharan origin of the Greeks

Authors' affiliations:A. Arnaiz-Villena^1,*, K. Dimitroski^2,*, A. Pacho¹, J. Moscoso¹, E. Gómez-Casado¹, C. Silvera-Redondo¹, P. Varela¹, M. Blagoevska², V. Zdravkovska², J. Martínez-Laso¹


Abstract: HLA alleles have been determined in individuals from the Republic of Macedonia by DNA typing and sequencing. HLA-A, -B, -DR, -DQ allele frequencies and extended haplotypes have been for the first time determined and the results compared to those of other Mediterraneans, particularly with their neighbouring Greeks. Genetic distances, neighbor-joining dendrograms and correspondence analysis have been performed. The following conclusions have been reached: 1) Macedonians belong to the "older" Mediterranean substratum, like Iberians (including Basques), North Africans, Italians, French, Cretans, Jews, Lebanese, Turks (Anatolians), Armenians and Iranians, 2) Macedonians are not related with geographically close Greeks, who do not belong to the "older" Mediterranenan substratum, 3) Greeks are found to have a substantial relatedness to sub-Saharan (Ethiopian) people, which separate them from other Mediterranean groups. Both Greeks and Ethiopians share quasi-specific DRB1 alleles, such as *0305, *0307, *0411, *0413, *0416, *0417, *0420, *1110, *1112, *1304 and *1310. Genetic distances are closer between Greeks and Ethiopian/sub-Saharan groups than to any other Mediterranean group and finally Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans in both neighbour joining dendrograms and correspondence analyses. The time period when these relationships might have occurred was ancient but uncertain and might be related to the displacement of Egyptian-Ethiopian people living in pharaonic Egypt.


[source]

I can understand your concern but you really shouldn't worry.
It is well known that there is a clear diversity between the west and the east mediterranean types.

[Sigel]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Greeks cluster with Ethiopians/sub-Saharans

Heck, Looks like we could run that old "Black Athena" debate right here on Stirpes.
http://www.geocities.com/warriorvase/
I'd like to know what Blood Axis makes of it all

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Sigel

Heck, Looks like we could run that old "Black Athena" debate right here on Stirpes.

Black Athena is one of the crappiest theories I have had the misfortune to read. Lefkowitz for example, a leading classicist, has a great book and many writings on the subject, refuting Bernal's theory.

http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/bmcr/1996/96.04.19.html

[Gil]

Originally Posted by Alkman

I can understand your concern but you really shouldn't worry.
It is well known that there is a clear diversity between the west and the east mediterranean types.

Of course, but it seems this whole thing started with YOU posting alleged connections between spaniards/portuguese and african lineages. Please, read a bit more about genetics before posting material you do not grasp (and neither do I to some extent). Lineages like L are african in origin, as are ALL lineages in origin. And about the diversity between populations, it's just a matter of logic and comparison of genetic data. For example, let's compare Central Portugal with Athens and Ireland.



Simply put, Western Europe as a whole is more similar in genetic makeup than the East/West cline, but I guess scientists knew that all along....

[Faísca]

Manji, which markers have been used on those graphics?

[Polak]

Originally Posted by Johannes de León

Manji, which markers have been used on those graphics?

Y-Chromosome STRs.

That's a pretty good match actually between Portugal and Ireland.

But that's no surprise, as Y-chromosomes between Ireland and Portugal do not show any statistical differences. In other words, both nations have a very similar paternal history.

The main difference between the countries is mtDNA. Portugal's mtDNA is obviously more southern European, while Ireland's is more northern.

[Gil]

That is a comparison chart of Y-STR haplotypes, the graphics show the frequency when compared with two target populations.

All haplotype data are compiled using STR loci markers, and use this structure:

DYS19-DYS389I-DYS389II-DYS390-DYS391-DYS392-DYS393-DS385a,b-DYS438-DYS439-other loci-

This is the highly variable short tandem repeat markers approved by the forensic and scientific community.

[Faísca]

Originally Posted by Manji

DYS19-DYS389I-DYS389II-DYS390-DYS391-DYS392-DYS393-DS385a,b-DYS438-DYS439-other loci-

Wouldn't this one be DS385b?

[Carnyx]

Ho another unproductive and ridiculous war between western and eastern mediterraneans. Interesting...

[Gil]

Actually it's two repeats of DS385, DS385a and DS385b. Notice the "," between a and b and the "-" separating markers.

Duchemin: what war? It's been pretty civil so far....
The point is, Alkman posted a research, Mynydd posted another, and I've posted one today...nothing wrong in diverse opinions, I think.

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Duchemin

Ho another unproductive and ridiculous war between western and eastern mediterraneans. Interesting...

Men need unproductive wars and ridiculous reasons for them at all times for apparently without them they lose their sense of self. Just look around you.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Manji

Duchemin: what war? It's been pretty civil so far....
The point is, Alkman posted a research, Mynydd posted another, and I've posted one today...nothing wrong in diverse opinions, I think.

Come on... In french we call it "lancer des piques à quelqu'un", i.e. to get at someone. You're right, actually it's more a guerilla.

Originally Posted by Rusalka

Men need unproductive wars and ridiculous reasons for them at all times for apparently without them they lose their sense of self. Just look around you.

He, impossible... You can't be wise, you're a woman. j/k

[Faísca]

Originally Posted by Manji

Actually it's two repeats of DS385, DS385a and DS385b. Notice the "," between a and b and the "-" separating markers.

Interesting... My haplotype seems to have its highest incidence in Basques, but it is also the most common in Portugal and Spain, as a whole.

[Awar]

It's actually not far-south-easterners, but Greek populations around some mosquito infested places.

During the WWI, the Serbian army which retreated to those areas was severely hit by malaria.

[Gil]

Johannes: care to post your entire haplotype sequence of markers? I could provide some info to you.
Also, it seems the so-called "Basque" genetic profile is not restricted to basques but to all iberians though the incidence of such cases are higher in the Basque Country.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Polak

Actually, I is closer to E than R.

Actually it's not.