Propaganda In Fyrom's School Books (with english subtitles)

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Galaico

Well according to that data Serbians and Herzegovians share 15% and 12% respectively of R1a1 so they're not "Slavic" either, on the other hand Greek Macedonians share 35% of R1a1 and I'm quite sure that it is not of Slavic origin.

How can you be so sure? It's a fact that R1a marker is older then both Slavs and Hellenes, but in Greek Macedonians it could as well be a result of intermixing with Slavs. It is well known that Slavs came all the way to today's Thessaloniki(Solun). Saint Cyrill and Methodius used the Slavic dialect from the Thessaloniki area to spread Christianity among the Slavs from the Balkans' area. That dialect evolved to Old Church Slavonic language, and played a significant role in both Croatian and Serbian.

It is true, that R1a1 is usually more abundant among Slavs, however its origin is much more ancient and it can't be related to any specific meta-ethnicity.

Exactly. No haplogroup can be related to meta-ethnicity.

Compare Serbian and FYROMian percentages they're almost the same, it is quite obvious they have a common origin, probably a mix of Illyrians of Paleo-European extraction, Illyrians (and/or Thracians) of Neolithic stock and ancient Slavonians.

Possible, but that's only a guess. Similar genetic make up doesn't mean that they have common origin.

If their Macedonian origin was so clear, they would be much closer to Greek Macedonians, and well, figures speak by themselves. I'm not denying a possible and small Macedonian influence in FYROMians, but that would be all, just a small influence that could be also be found in other Balkanic people, such as Bulgarians, Serbs, etc.

True, but who says that ancient Macedonians were genetically similar to today's Greek Macedonians? We know almost nothing about them, except the fact they were speaking a Greek dialect. Today's Croats and Serbs speak almost the same language, but are genetically pretty much different.

Originally Posted by Kan Yuvigi Asparukh

I'm interested in other thing. If we compare table one of Bardyllis' post and that one, I see that the people calling themselves Bulgarians Macedonians and Serbians are almost the same genetically. I'm not an anthropologist but that's what I understood from these statistics. Correct me, if I'm wrong

The old post you presented contains obsolete data. At that time Eu's and HG's were used, but those terms were inadequate because they were ill defined.
For example HG2(haplotype group 2), observed in Bulgarians and Serbs in a high frequency, should have been the synonym for today's haplogroup I. But it contained not only haplogroup I, but also the fragments of some related haplogroups.
The mistake with HG2 is even greater when you know that haplogroup I is divided into a dozen of subclades, where almost every subclade has its own subclade.
So, for example, if this HG test was done on Croats, Norwegians and Sardinians, all three group samples would undoubtedly show high frequency of HG2. That would cause a great mess, because those people shared common ancestors approx 15 000-10 000 years ago(through the haplogroup I).
Here you can see what designations are used today, as well as all haplogroups and their subclades.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

The word Macedonia comes form Greek. Originally Makedon means a "tall, big man", the same root as makros (big).

Of course, it is just name and it doesn't say anything about present-day ethnic composition of Macedonia.

[Hegumen]

Originally Posted by Galaico

As far as I know Tito renamed Macedonia because of his admiration to Alexander the Great, and all the FYROMian rewritting of history just came in the last few decades as the documentary says.

Speaking of silly propaganda... I think Zrinski already responded to this one.

Originally Posted by Galaico

Anyone can imagine Alexander speking a language that was only brought to the Balkans hundreds of years later after his death?

The majority of Macedonians do not believe this and know that they speak a Slavic language (i.e. not the same language as the ancient Macedonians).

Originally Posted by Galaico

However, I wouldn't deny that most FYROMians do actually have some Macedonian ancestry ... many of them will probably descend from Slavicied Macedonians.

This is exactly what mainstream Macedonian historians have been writing.

Originally Posted by Galaico

The most direct descendants of the ancient Macedonians are in any case the current Hellenes from the Greek province of Macedonia, that is, modern Macedonians.

Up until fairly recently these people were speaking a Slavic language and had a non-Greek national identity.

Originally Posted by Milfiades

"In the old books used in Fyrom, there was no mention of Alexander's heritage, nor to his "Macedonianism", the change came after 1941..."

What about Gjorgjija Pulevski (1817—1893) who, in his dictionary published in 1875, spoke of an independent national consciousness of the Macedonian people and laid claims to Alexander the Great?

Many other poets and writers also collected folk stories which speak of Alexander and his conquests.

Originally Posted by Zrinski

It depends which time period you have in mind. The borders of Macedonia changed through history. From ancient times over the Roman times all the way from Medieval era, era under Ottoman occupation and modern times and modern Macedonian region.

I was speaking about what is today generally considered Macedonian region, as it is since late 19th centuries.

Once again, Zrinski is right. Take a look at the following map showing the wider geographical region of Macedonia.

Originally Posted by Galaico

Well according to that data Serbians and Herzegovians share 15% and 12% respectively of R1a1 so they're not "Slavic" either, on the other hand Greek Macedonians share 35% of R1a1 and I'm quite sure that it is not of Slavic origin.

You can bet that it is! The Slavic tribes went as far as Thessaloniki (Solun), and ethnographers from the 19th and 20th centuries found that the majority of the people in today's northern Greece spoke a Slavic language and did not identify as ethnic Greeks.

Originally Posted by Monolith

We know almost nothing about them, except the fact they were speaking a Greek dialect.

Even that isn't known for certain.

Originally Posted by Plethon

Of course, it is just name and it doesn't say anything about present-day ethnic composition of Macedonia.

Of course. Just as the etymology of "Russia" is widely believed not to be of Slavic origin, but rather from Old Norse.

[Galaico]

Only the people from the Macedonian nucleus (and that is pre-Philippus II) can be considered Macedonian in the strict ethnic sense, the same way only people from the Latium can be considered ethnic Romans.

[Hegumen]

Originally Posted by Galaico

Yes, that's what I said in my first post, but that could only be applied to Southern FYROMians, the other 80% of FYROM doesn't have Macedonian blood.

If you really want to see pretty much unmixed Macedonians, that have kept their language, culture and tradition, go to Northern Greece.

You're completely wrong on both points.

The ethnic Greeks, most of them anyway, are not in fact local — their ancestors are Greeks (mostly from Anatolia) from formerly Greek-populated places outside of Greece who were resettled in this part of Macedonia after it was captured by the Greek side (population exchanges with Turkey).

You can't honestly believe that the same basic local population has remained in the same geographic area after some 1,500 years (from around the time of the arrival of the Slavs).