Estonian capital suffers second night of violence

[Theobald]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Pardon my ignorance, but isn't Dugin a Stalinist?

I tend to think so since he is an advocate of National Bolshevism.

Dugin soon began publishing his own journal Elementy (...) Consistently glorifying both Tsarist and Stalinist Russia, Elementy also revealed Dugin's admiration for Heinrich Himmler and Julius Evola, to name but two. (...)
Dugin's ideas, particularly those on "a Turkic-Slavic alliance in the Eurasian sphere" have recently become popular among certain nationalistic circles in Turkey.

Sounds nice.

[Ostrogorski]

Originally Posted by svin

Relationship between nations evolves in time, you should understand it.

You can tell that to the people who lost their beloved by Estonian forces who fought on the side of German army in ww2!

And you should understand that someone who once came to kill you will come again!

These people hate Russians, and that won't change. It doesn't matter whether it's a monument dedicated to Soviet soldier or to some Russian emperor. Only thing that matters is that it is Russian. Ask some Russian from Estonia!

Did Serbs have conflicts with Finns?

What that has to do with anything?

Russians (especially northern) have a lot in common with Finns & Karelians, much more
than with Western or Southern Slavic nations.

So?

Ok, now I got it. You're Duginist. Discussion is over.

p.s. Don't even try to read this pro-asiatic nonsense.

No, I'm not Duginist, but I respect the man.

On the other hand you sound like some Orange/Jablokoist to me!

Maybe you're the one of those who feel sorry for Ana Politkovskaja and scum like her???

[Crvena zvezda]

Quote:
Did Serbs have conflicts with Finns?

No. But I have problem with former finnish president Athissari and his plans to give Kosovo independence.

[svin]

ou can tell that to the people who lost their beloved by Estonian forces who fought on the side of German army in ww2!

Ever heard of Pannwitz cossacks, ROA, RONA etc etc? Should I hate my own people because some of them were collaborationists? Did you know that a lot of Estonians fought on the side of USSR?

These people hate Russians, and that won't change. It doesn't matter whether it's a monument dedicated to Soviet soldier or to some Russian emperor. Only thing that matters is that it is Russian. Ask some Russian from Estonia!

Lol, I know a lot of Russians in Estonia who don't have any problem with Estonians. What Serb can know about our relations with Estonians? Have you ever met one Estonian in your life?

Answer me, should I hate Germans? Or Austrians? Or French? Or any other European naiton we had war with?

Should Finns hate us because damned soviet government attacked them in '39? And please don't try to portray us as victims. We were often agressors, we attacked, of course we've been attacked too. That's how history happens, noone is perfect.

On the other hand you sound like some Orange/Jablokoist to me!

Better to be 'orange' than to worship Dugin's asiatic nonsense. But I'm not. I'm simply nationalist.

[svin]

Sounds nice.

Yeah, I guess Sektor's fellow countrymen would be 'glad' to make an alliance with Turks.

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by Sektor

There are many peoples in Europe, that don't have their national states, like Basques, Sorbs, Lapps, Gypsies etc. so what?

Basques, Sorbs, Lapps enjoy autonomy, Gypsies do not belong in Europe.

Originally Posted by Sektor

But I never denied Estonians the right for their own national state, so you're talking about something that has nothing to do with my "story"...

Your claim is laughable. I clearly concentrated on the issue.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Estonia was never a independent state, because Estonians never created a state, therefore Russians didn't destroyed or attacked the state of Estonia, but they've captured territory that was previously under the Teutonic and Swedish rule.

After WWI Estonia was a free state, like the other Baltic nations including Finland.
Russia always suppressed independence movements in these countries after they were conquered by Russia. The fact these counties were under Swedish and German rule before does not justify imperialistic Russian policy. It was not at least thanks to German troops the Baltic countries and Finland became independent. The USSR continued Russia's imperialist policy and the Hitler-Stalin treaty made them part of the USSR in 1939.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Russian "case" is in no way similar to other "great imperialistic forces" like Britain, Spain, France etc. and Estonians aren't Indians nor African blacks!

I do ot know what exactly want to compare here, but for the Balts the Russian, especially Soviet suppression was horrible.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Oppression, brutal suppression, ruthless imperialism, blah, blah, blah... How come, there are still Estonians in Estonia, instead of 100% Russians (or Soviets for that matter) if they were brutally oppressed??? How come they are still culturally, ethnically, and linguistically Estonians, if Russia and Soviets were so ruthlessly imperialistic??? How come there are 1.300.000 Estonians today, when they were on the level of a statistical error, through all of their history???

Your attempt to minimize Soviet crimes won't be tolerated here any longer! There are no doubts both imperialistic powers, Russia, but especially the USSR brutall ysuppressed and murdered thousands of Balts, tens of thousands were deported to Gulags just because they were Balts. The reason why they still speak their language and continue their heritage is they were not broken and stood together in hard times.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Wanna talk about oppression and ruthless imperialism, why don't you look in your own backyard? So called "east Germany" was once completely Slavic country, how come there are only 50.000 Slavs there today?

I never denied the brutal oppression of Slavs by the Teutonic Order, I even mentioned it. Nevertheless, the history of Slavs and Germans not only consists of bloody wars and mutual oppression. The Sorbs enjoy minority right you hardly find elsewhere on the world, and it is no secret that especially in Germany's east many people are at least partly of Slavic origin.

Originally Posted by Sektor

How about Austria? A land that was once 100% ethnically Slovenian, how many Slovenes are there today? Do you remember the word "Drang nach Osten"? So, please spare me with those crappy bed-time stories about Russian "oppression and ruthless imperialism",

Who settled in Serbia before the Slavs arrived?
We could debate this for eternity, it is no secret there was a colonization of territories east of Germany, but ist is a mistake to say it happened violent all the time. Like I mentioned before, many Slavic leaders called for German settlers. Many Slovenes volunteerly became Germanized so to speak, the Hungarians in the Vojvodina are not to keen to identify themselves with Slavic Serbs. However, the colonialization of the east not necessarily was a German national enterprise, it was done to christianize the Slavs in the first place.

Originally Posted by Sektor

you sound like a Jew!

Oh vey!
Senseless ranting typical for someone having been defeated.

Originally Posted by Sektor

This is the worst of all! Your problem is your atlantistic way of thinking, and it makes you see only "the tree and not the forest", if you get my point...

My atlantistic way of thinking? Indeed, I do not get your point.

Originally Posted by Sektor

I already told something similar to Theobald, your problem is that you look at Russians, like they are some sort of barbaric invaders, similar to legal or illegal immigrants, in western Europe, the people who came to exploit, pollute and destroy other people's cultures and countries, turning them into multicultural and multinational mud.

That's not true, my view on Russians is not limited to Russian gangs stealing cars here.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Russia is something much "wider" than that. Russia is a homeland, not exclusively to ethnic Russians, but to many peoples that are neither Slavic, nor even Indoeuropean!

Russians will soon enough be just one of these minorities in Russia when their population continues shrinking this way it currently does.

Originally Posted by Sektor

My suggestion to you is to read some book written by Aleksandar Dugin, maybe then will you get it.

Get what? You should get noone but the Russians themselves are responsible for what is happening in their country.

Originally Posted by Sektor

A lesson from history - Slavs were and still are, predominantly agricultural folk, and they were agricultural from the day they've been created in this world! Procopius and Constantine Porfirogenitus wrote that Greeks were already trading with the Slavs, while Germanics were still shitting their pants. So, I don't know what could have Slavs learned from the Germanics?

Well, new methods of farming, advanced ploughs and other important farming devices were brought to Slavic lands. German craftsmen were the most skilled in Europe and hired for big money. Later all sorts of technology, machines and industrial equipment were brought to slavic lands. There is not one year in history where Slavs had anything more advanced than the Germanics had, so I suggest you do not lean to far out of the window.

Originally Posted by Sektor

St. Cyrill and Methodius, the people who invented the Glagolitic script, were Slavs, and their students,who invented Cyrillic script, were Slavs! Anyway Cyrillic script was heavily influenced by Slavic runes.

First of all, who brought runes to Slavia
Anyway, alphabetization started with christianization, overhere and there.

Originally Posted by Sektor

First Slavic medieval states emerged almost at the same time as Germanic states, and were influenced by Byzantine empire.

The founding of states on Slavic soil started after it had been done in the West and South.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Laughable? And you say that Russians shouldn't be worried because NATO's knocking on their door?

NATO is a pestilence, but not responsible for Russia's interiour problems.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Who are they defending? Who is a "rogue state" here? The nearest "rogue country" is thousands of kilometers away... Who financed and organized, so called, "orange revolutions" in Ukraine and Georgia and why?

These defence missiles are constructed to intercept ballistic missiles heading towards the USA.
I am well aware who is behind the "democtratication", nevertheless Russia supported these movements by treating neighbouring states as subjects to the Russian empire.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Too many questions, eh? Try to answer to any of these questions, and maybe you'll be a bit closer to the truth!

You should not mix up your indoctrinated views with truth.

Originally Posted by Sektor

And one more thing, western powers always looked at Russia as an enemy, propaganda was always the same - whether they called Russia, a "dark backward Czarists", or "evil Bolsheviks", or today "undemocratic" regime!!!

Well, I do not care Russia whether is democratic or not, I would like to see they start to sort out their problems without blaming innocents that have nothing to do with these problems.
I am no worshipper of western democracy, I find it outragous to see the fat liberal pig Merkel travelling around and telling Russia and China they must care for human rights, democracy and freedom of press. But all this does not justify Russian imperialistic policy towards neighbouring countries.

[Gottslav]

The whole riot thing in Tallinn and other towns is a Kremlin-staged provocation aimed at the independent state and sovereign nation of Estonia. Perhaps, even at the idea of nationalism as such. Bastards!

I believe the Russian secret services helped a lot at keeping the fire of discontent burning.

[Gottslav]

Originally Posted by svin

Russians (especially northern) have a lot in common with Finns & Karelians, much more
than with Western or Southern Slavic nations.

I concur. There's no problem between Russians and Estonians in Estonia. Both peoples living there are real close in regards to general outlook, temperament and habits. There's a clash of interests though between Post-Soviet imperialism and rising independent nation.

@Sektor. I saw it all firsthand, as I often go to Estonia and my wife's relatives are living there. Don't be sold so easily to imperialistic propaganda.

[Ostrogorski]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

Your attempt to minimize Soviet crimes won't be tolerated here any longer! There are no doubts both imperialistic powers, Russia, but especially the USSR brutall ysuppressed and murdered thousands of Balts, tens of thousands were deported to Gulags just because they were Balts. The reason why they still speak their language and continue their heritage is they were not broken and stood together in hard times.

Bravo, tough guy, threating me for disagreeing with you! What's next? Inciting martial law for denying the "Estonian holohoax"???

Interesting to note is that there is not a single number of how many Russians were deported to gulags, on this link you gave! I wonder why?

I could fully reply to your post, but that would just open new questions, and this discussion already went into the wrong direction. So, I want to summarize the arguments we have here...

Gottslav is right when he says this - "There's a clash of interests though between Post-Soviet imperialism and rising independent nation."

But I must paraphrase his sentence a bit. It is actually a clash between Russian national interests and NATO's interests! You can see that clash in other areas, like in Georgia and Ukraine. Geopolitically speaking, NATO/USA/Zionists went to deep into the "Russian space". Petty countries are just a tool in a hands of Zionists. That's what's behind all of this charade... NATO troops are in Baltic countries, Romania, Turkey etc. If you open your map, you'll see how close are these countries to Russia. Georgia has now a, so called, pro-western government, they want to join NATO and EU etc. There are still interior struggles in Ukraine about, whether Ukraine is going to be a pro-western country or not.

What I feel sorry for, is to see that even nationalists have swallowed that crappy Zionist propaganda about "the brave small nation and evil imperialists"!

If NATO troops are in your country, then it means that NATO controls your country. That's a fact, and I think this is the beginning of a new cold war!

And there is a "Iranian" question. What do you think, what was the real reason for occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan? I'll tell you, because USA/NATO wants to attack Iran. Why? There are several reasons - first because Iran has Islamic government that is anti-Zionist, and Iran is too close to Israel. Second, because Iran has perfect geopolitical position - Iran borders with former Soviet republics. Do you see the pattern here? Not to mention that Pakistan is American ally, and that USA/NATO has troops there! Do you think that recent friendly Russo-Iranian relations are a coincidence?

Europe is under the American (Atlantist/Zionist) occupation, and we won't have peace until we get rid of that plague. European politicians are nothing but the American servants and some countries have even Jews for their presidents, with waste hordes of new immigrants, waiting on the borders. That's how degenerate Europe is today.

Serbia is like it always was in her history - a hardheaded and stubborn nation, an island in a NATO sea! Sometimes it seems that the whole world is on our case. There are internal political struggles between the nationalists and the "democrats". First group is ready to fight against NATO and for our nation, and for Russia and the whole of Europe, second group are the traitors! And again here, small-minded and pathetic neighboring countries have shown to be a tool in Zionists hands. The ongoing struggle for Kosovo and Metohia will probably be the decisive battle for the future of our land!

And one more thing, I see that many of you, are falling to their propaganda in the name of anti-communism. It is long time forbidden to express in a positive manner about Wehrmacht, and especially about SS, or even about any of the axis troops. They want to do the same with the red army. Their intention is to present themselves as only "good guys" in ww2. When I say "they" I mean Anglo-Americans or USA and UK. And especially to show that Russian empire, USSR, and today's Russia were and are an evil and backward countries that always oppressed and tortured little nations, while on the other hand, they are "good and free countries, bringers of peace, prosperity and democracy world wide"!

[svin]

Interesting to note is that there is not a single number of how many Russians were deported to gulags, on this link you gave! I wonder why?

Communism was equally bad for Russians and for Estonians.

[Ostrogorski]

Originally Posted by svin

Communism was equally bad for Russians and for Estonians.

Exactly, so ask yourself why this author didn't present the number of Russians who were deported to gulags? Was his intention to show that all other nations were the victims while Russians were privileged?

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by Sektor

Bravo, tough guy, threating me for disagreeing with you!

It is not about disagreeing in the first place. It is about mocking about a native European folk wich is outlawed and not tolerable.

Originally Posted by Sektor

What's next? Inciting martial law for denying the "Estonian holohoax"???

Next is infractions for not obeying to Stirpes rules.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Interesting to note is that there is not a single number of how many Russians were deported to gulags, on this link you gave! I wonder why?

This link was not about Russians having been deported into Gulags but about non-Russian folks under Russian occupation that were deported and enslaved.
Here is an interesting link about Gulags.

Originally Posted by Sektor

I could fully reply to your post, but that would just open new questions, and this discussion already went into the wrong direction. So, I want to summarize the arguments we have here...

It is you directing this thread ito a wrong direction. Your uncritical siding for the imperial Russian side has nothing to do with patriotism.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Gottslav is right when he says this - "There's a clash of interests though between Post-Soviet imperialism and rising independent nation."

Indeed.
That's it all about here. And your siding with Post-Soviet imperialism is targeted against nationalism.

Originally Posted by Sektor

But I must paraphrase his sentence a bit. It is actually a clash between Russian national interests and NATO's interests!

Russia does not have to have national interests within Estonian borders. It is Russias duty to bring their people back home and to care for them, and not to stir uprisings in other countries. NATO does not have anything to do with that, the Baltic nations joined NATO because they fear Russian imperialism. I can imagine Estiona would not have joined NATO if there would be no Russian colonists within her borders and no Russian threat.

Originally Posted by Sektor

You can see that clash in other areas, like in Georgia and Ukraine. Geopolitically speaking, NATO/USA/Zionists went to deep into the "Russian space".

And what happened before these clashes? Permanent Russian interventions in neighbouring states' affairs as if these were still part of the USSR. Neither Georgia nor Estonia are "Russian Space", it is time for the Russian government to get this. The more Russia threatens them, the more the unwelcomed US presence will grow. Beggars can't be choosers, when noone but the USA comes for help at least this help is appreciated.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Petty countries are just a tool in a hands of Zionists.

And what do these alleged zionists do? Whan I read at e.g. SF, Russia already is completley under the control of Jewish oligarchs. What conspiracy theory comes up next?

Originally Posted by Sektor

That's what's behind all of this charade... NATO troops are in Baltic countries, Romania, Turkey etc. If you open your map, you'll see how close are these countries to Russia. Georgia has now a, so called, pro-western government, they want to join NATO and EU etc. There are still interior struggles in Ukraine about, whether Ukraine is going to be a pro-western country or not.

I am well aware the support of pro-Western movements is no altruism, but the permanent Russian threat and meddling makes these movements the more popular.

Originally Posted by Sektor

What I feel sorry for, is to see that even nationalists have swallowed that crappy Zionist propaganda about "the brave small nation and evil imperialists"!

It is rather sad you prefer Russian imperialism over Western imperialism instead of rejecting both.

Originally Posted by Sektor

If NATO troops are in your country, then it means that NATO controls your country. That's a fact, and I think this is the beginning of a new cold war!

I am well aware my county is occupied. But I do not see any signs of a new Cold War to be honest. The next war, if there will be any, will be a civil war.

Originally Posted by Sektor

And there is a "Iranian" question.

There is no Iranian question. Now you use Zionist vocabulary...

Originally Posted by Sektor

What do you think, what was the real reason for occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan?

Geostrategical control and a war against some insurgents that dare to fight against the USA/West.

Originally Posted by Sektor

I'll tell you, because USA/NATO wants to attack Iran. Why? There are several reasons - first because Iran has Islamic government that is anti-Zionist, and Iran is too close to Israel. Second, because Iran has perfect geopolitical position - Iran borders with former Soviet republics. Do you see the pattern here? Not to mention that Pakistan is American ally, and that USA/NATO has troops there! Do you think that recent friendly Russo-Iranian relations are a coincidence?

When all this is this clear for you so answer the question wy the USA did not already invade Iran? Iran is no big threat exept to some Arab emirates maybe.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Europe is under the American (Atlantist/Zionist) occupation, and we won't have peace until we get rid of that plague. European politicians are nothing but the American servants and some countries have even Jews for their presidents, with waste hordes of new immigrants, waiting on the borders. That's how degenerate Europe is today.

So you blame Jews for the situation. Then you surely can answer the question why Jews should be interested in importing millions of Muslims here. Muslims often attack Jews here, not really a comfortable situation for Jews. Furthermore the racial degeneration through racemixing does anything but benefit economy and Israel's interests. An islamized Europe surely would backstabb Israel instead of paying money and delivering goods. Ever thought about that?
If the Europeans serve US interests and are just puppets you surely can answer the question why the FRG and France did not only send no troops to Iraq but also foiled all US proposals in the UN.

Originally Posted by Sektor

Serbia is like it always was in her history - a hardheaded and stubborn nation, an island in a NATO sea!

And you surely can elaborate on why Israel is pro-Serbian all the time.

Originally Posted by Sektor