Italy-Croatia WWII massacre spat

[Strengthandhonour]

Italy-Croatia WWII massacre spat
By Christian Fraser
BBC News, Rome

Italy has cancelled an official visit to Croatia following an angry exchange over the massacre of thousands of Italians during World War II. In 1943-45, up to 10,000 were tortured or killed by Yugoslav communists who occupied the Istrian peninsula, now part of Croatia and Slovenia.
On Saturday, Italian President Giorgio Napolitano, an ex-communist, described the murders as "ethnic cleansing".
Croatian leader Stipe Mesic said his speech had traces of "open racism".
This little known chapter of World War II still causes Italians great pain and division.
It is known as the Foibe, after the deep mountain chasms into which the victims were thrown.
At the end of the war, it was largely hushed up by the politicians, who were keen to heal Italy's war wounds and move on with reconstruction.
It also sat uncomfortably with the image communist partisans had forged as national heroes, who had saved the country from an alliance with Adolf Hitler.
'Wave of hatred' Last weekend, at only the third remembrance day held for Foibe victims, President Napolitano said the massacre had been motivated by "a wave of bloodthirsty hatred and fury as well as a Slavic annexation plan".
It was a speech which offended his Croatian counterpart Stipe Mesic, who wrote saying "it was impossible to not see overt elements of racism, historical revisionism and a desire for political revenge".
The letter has sparked an unusual war of words.
Foreign Minister Massimo D'Alema on Tuesday cancelled a trip to Zagreb and summoned the Croatian ambassador.
Italian Prime Minister Romano Prodi contacted the Croatian prime minister "to express his contempt for the unjustifiable words that, among other things, comes after a period of great collaboration".
Italy wants talks on Croatian EU membership to include compensation for property that Italians lost in Istria and Dalmatia during World War II - something the Croatians seem open to discuss.
But a spokesman for the Croatian prime minister suggested it was time for the two sides to open a mutual commission to investigate properly those crimes committed during and after World War II.



source: BBC NEWS | Europe | Italy-Croatia WWII massacre spat

[svin]

Really, I don't see any reason for politicians to say these words. This has already became history, so historians should deal with it, not politicians. Any money claims are ridiculous too. Almost any European country can be viewed as agressor or victim. WWII was a great disaster for all Europeans.

[Strengthandhonour]

I agree. They look like school children fighting back and forward with each other. I do agree with both countries working together to bring the real truth out of the darkness.

[Zrinski]

The main problem is that Italian president basically said that Slavs are genocidal bunch and also implied that somehow "italian territory" was taken away from them.

What he and generally most of Italian officials always forget to mention that parts of Dalmatia and Istria were occuppied since 1920s where no one asked Croats or Slovenes living in those areas what they want. Not to mention forced "italianization" where "ridiculous" and "unappropriate" Slavic names were changed. Slavic (Croatian and Slovenian) schools closed and people who resisted killed, exiled or imprisoned in concentration camps (among the first in Europe).

At the end and after WW2 Partisans did commit crimes but the victims were not only Italians but also Croats and Slovenes who sympathized with the Axis forces. Some 45-50,000 Croats and Slovenes were exiled too from Dalmatia and Istria by Partisans and fled to Italy and abroad. Also some 40-50,000 people (mostly Croats) were killed on Bleiburg not to mention the estimates of about 200,000 people (again mostly Croats) killed on 'way of the cross' massacres where there are unknown and unmarked graves all over Slovenia and Croatia. Macelj was another one where around 12-17,000 Croats were killed.

The point is the argumentation used by Italian president is unacceptable as it implies something which is not and cannot be true. Also questioning peace treaties from Rome and Osimo is again something unacceptable.

Finally we need to sort these things out and close this chapter of our history, but this can be achieved only by objective study and research of those tragic events not with ignorrant populist statements.

[Ederico]

Frankly the Croatian indignation is off-target in this question. The real question here was in reality internal to Italy. People must remember that the Communist President Napolitano had actually in the past stated that the massacres of Italians were an invention, I guess of "fascisti", and the the Italian left always denied these massacres. The President's statements, being him either a hypocrite or a penitent, were due to mounting historical pressure against those Italian leftists who denied the "foibe". Amongst the latter, this President who caused havoc. The President however can be called anything but populist as far as I'm concerned, seeing his life as a whole he is a hypocrite, and as a penitent he is doing quite a bad job as well. Well, he was and probably still is a Communist. Go figure.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Although I am Croatian, here I completely decline to show any solidarity with the president Mesić. This "politician-clown" has sold out Croatia to foreign interests, he has debased Croatia's image declaring it a country not having any political autonomy (subserviency to Bruxelles and Washington), but being a mere holiday resort, he has practically abolished Croatian sovereignity.This ape-like creature is a genuine traitor. Now he shows "toughness", while fighting more than sixty year old battles, battles from the past. But in the real policy of today he is extremely obedient, no trace of any "toughness" or "resoluteness".

A vile creature indeed...justifying Communist massacres (a thing he did about two weeks ago) which happened immediately after the second world war won't bring any benefit to Croatia of today. Now he shows fake "toughness" dealing with Napolitano.

Not that I justify Napolitano's statement either. There is no such thing like "Slavic nation". "Slavic" is only a linguistic group.

The fact that Mesić was twice elected as President of the Republic shows the utterly contemptible character of the modern liberal-democratic system.

[Zrinski]

Ederico, Napolitano is a populist. A populist is a person who mainly says what others want to hear, thats exactly what Italian president did...he said what most people wanted to hear. However he did it wrong, although I am sure it was for internal use in Italy only, he as a president should have known that his statement will be carried out in the papers and that evenetually people outside Italy will read it as well.

Speaking of some "slavic brutality" and suggesting Slavs have a tendency for genocide or some other similar BS is indeed very close to racism. Not to mention historical revision which implies that Italians were the only victims of communism and Tito's lackeys. From my previous post you can see that the truth is far from it.

I personally as well have at least 3 family members that were taken away by them (on the 'Way of the Cross' and at Bleiburg) after WW2 never to be seen again.

[M.R.]

I would agree with Zrinski on this one, just few things I want to add.

Originally Posted by Zrinski

What he and generally most of Italian officials always forget to mention that parts of Dalmatia and Istria were occuppied since 1920s where no one asked Croats or Slovenes living in those areas what they want.

Not only Istra and Dalmatia, but also Slovenian Primorska/Goriška.

Originally Posted by Zrinski

At the end and after WW2 Partisans did commit crimes but the victims were not only Italians but also Croats and Slovenes who sympathized with the Axis forces. Some 45-50,000 Croats and Slovenes were exiled too from Dalmatia and Istria by Partisans and fled to Italy and abroad.

Indeed, this is true, but all of them weren't really sympathizers with Axis forces, anyone who was a threat for communist revolution (from regions which were occupied by Italy) was killed, regardless what his views on Axis forces was - communist slaughtered TIGR members, who fought against Italians during WWII for example. Many of them were considered 'Italians' because they had Italian passports and 'Italian names' - changing of Slavic names to Italian during occupation which you already mentioned.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Panonski

Not only Istra and Dalmatia, but also Slovenian Primorska/Goriška.

Yes you are right. Half of Slovenia was occuppied by Italy.

Indeed, this is true, but all of them weren't really sympathizers with Axis forces, anyone who was a threat for communist revolution (from regions which were occupied by Italy) was killed, regardless what his views on Axis forces was

Yes, again you are right. Most of Croatians killed at Bleiburg for example were in fact civilians and/or members of 'Domobrani' ('Homeguards') who were a regular army/territorial defence of 'Banate of Croatia' in Kingdom of Yugoslavia.