Ulster Loyalists: A Tree of Hatred Planted in the Heart of Ireland

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Benen an ynys

That's madness. :-O I just find it hard to comprehend that level of animosity (actually, hatred)...

You would shudder at the Holy Cross School protests then, when Loyalist men & women would line the streets to a Catholic girls school and taunt, shout, threaten and throw things at 5 year old children on their way to school each morning, having to be "protected" by a corridor of riot police.

To hear adults scream "Romish C*nt!" and "Fenian Wh0re!" at infants realy shakes your faith in humanity, not to mention having pornography held in front of them, urine thrown over then, being spat upon, having bombs tied to the gates of their school........all providing you class such specimens as actually human, that is.
I have serious doubts, personally.

Of course, it's the same chutzpah as always.
The Loyalists claimed that it was the kids and their parents who provoked it all by walking down their streets on their way to school......like they had any choice in the matter.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1Tl1v2IKqs&feature=related [/media]

[Benen an ynys]

Originally Posted by Milesian

You would shudder at the Holy Cross School protests then, when Loyalist men & women would line the streets to a Catholic girls school and taunt, shout, threaten and throw things at 5 year old children on their way to school each morning, having to be "protected" by a corridor of riot police.

To hear adults scream "Romish C*nt!" and "Fenian Wh0re!" at infants realy shakes your faith in humanity, not to mention having pornography held in front of them, urine thrown over then, being spat upon, having bombs tied to the gates of their school........all providing you class such specimens as actually human, that is.
I have serious doubts, personally.

Of course, it's the same chutzpah as always.
The Loyalists claimed that it was the kids and their parents who provoked it all by walking down their streets on their way to school......like they had any choice in the matter.

YouTube - Irish Republican Media - Holy Cross

That wouldn't make me shudder, it would make me enraged.

Thing is Milesian, I can't actually understand why the Loyalists (if it's only them) are so angry.(??) I visited an historical park type place in Northern Ireland, and even the descriptions of the history of Northern Ireland (and to a lesser extent, all of Ireland) were sympathetic to the colonists to the point that it seemed, at times, hostile toward the native people. Descriptions of the colonists having such a hard time of it when they first arrived because the native Irish protested against their presence, or the native Irish were "jealous" of their "superior housing" and "civilisation"... that sort of thing. It was very strange to see (as such places, as far as I know, are supposed to be objective and unbiased) and actually made no sense. I can't see why anyone would believe that the colonists had/have a right to be so angry and feel so hard done by.

In the international media, one does hear a lot about the "Irish terrorists" (meaning the Catholics, the IRA, the IRIA etc), yet when we were going to leave the republic to go into Northern Ireland one time, people looked at us as though we were really brave (I was with an Irishman)... their eyes would grow wide when they'd tell stories of how they got close to the border once, or they even crossed the border (no shit, depictions were that dramatic)... and we knew that we were mad to drive a car with Republic license plates... so I got quite nervous. While there, we got a lot of aggressively hostile stares (I'm assuming it's because they saw our car ) and had a few insults dished out, we even had one guy spit at our feet upon learning the man I was with was from the Republic, but the thing that surprised me the most was when we spent the night in Bangor, we woke up the next morning to hear that a Catholic Primary School and a Catholic Church had been bombed overnight. :-O A Primary School and a Church!!! Of course, you would never hear about that in the international media.

Anyway, if I ever go back again, it will not be during the Marching Season.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Benen an ynys

That wouldn't make me shudder, it would make me enraged.

Haha, well yes. There is that side to it too

Thing is Milesian, I can't actually understand why the Loyalists (if it's only them) are so angry.(??) I visited an historical park type place in Northern Ireland, and even the descriptions of the history of Northern Ireland (and to a lesser extent, all of Ireland) were sympathetic to the colonists to the point that it seemed, at times, hostile toward the native people. Descriptions of the colonists having such a hard time of it when they first arrived because the native Irish protested against their presence, or the native Irish were "jealous" of their "superior housing" and "civilisation"... that sort of thing. It was very strange to see (as such places, as far as I know, are supposed to be objective and unbiased) and actually made no sense. I can't see why anyone would believe that the colonists had/have a right to be so angry and feel so hard done by.

When you put it like that, it is absurd, isn't it?
I'm used to just taking for granted that they are that way. It's bred into them, I guess. It's a poisonous mentality passed down among them from generation to generation. But we should be careful to remember that they were not always this way. They have been conditioned to be this way.
Several centuries ago, the worst fear of the British happened.
The Protestant Planters they settled in Ireland on confiscated lands to drive a wedge in the population began to harbour their own desire to be free of British rule. For centuries, many of them suffered under British rule as well. For many of them had come from Scotland and were Presbyterians. As such, they were Non-Conformists. As they were not part of the Established Church, they were legally classed as "Recusants". And while they did not suffer the same degree of violent persecution as the Catholics (which by this time included the old Anglo-Irish Catholic families who had settled before the Reformation and where by now largely indistinguishable from the Gaelic Irish Catholics in all but name), they did suffer various legal handicaps as well. A group of Presbyterians in Belfast became unhappy with this as well as the crippling protective tariffs that Britain imposed on Irish trade and industry, and they became enamoured with the new ideals emanating from Revolutionary France. In the 18th century, they formed The Society of United Irishmen. They wanted independence and they even became involved in the cause of Catholic Emancipation. For them,there was to be no distinction anymore between Catholic or Protestant. They simply considered all to be Irish. They joined their relative political sophistication with the manpower of the Catholic agrarian rebels such as the "Defenders". Men such as Theobald Wolfe Tone even went to France and secured French military assistance, which was promptly landed at Killala. In fact, the combined French and Irish forces made inroads and captured parts of western Ireland, as a song commemorates

"The hill-tops with glory were glowing,
Twas the eve of a bright harvest day,
When the ships we'd been wearily waiting
Sailed into Killala's broad bay
And over the hills went the slogan
to awaken in every breast
The fire that has never been quenched, boys
Among the true hearts of the west

Killala was ours by midnight
And high over Ballina town
Our banners in triumph were waving
Before the next sun had gone down
We gather to speed the good work, boys
The true men anear and afar
And history can tell how we routed
The Redcoats through old Castlebar"

Bearing in mind that whatever else, this was Protestant and Catholics joined together under the identity of Irishmen, in opposition to British rule.

This gave the British a huge fright. The Irish themselves were ill-equipped, armed with little more than pikes (much to the dismay of the French when they arrived lol) considering that the country had been disarmed for generations by the British (even owning a horse worth more than a certain amount would mean being publicly flogged). After being taken initially by surprise, the British were eventually able to re-assert their authority and crushed the rebellion. But the shock they had recieved not only by seeing their own Planter lackeys unite with the Irish against them, but also seeing their old enemy, France, using Ireland as a backdoor to attack them, gave them serious cause for concern.

They utterly supressed the Society of United Irishmen, and to prevent such a thing ever happening again they introduced a new society - The Orange Order. This was to be the antithesis of the SUI. It was built around a fabricated mythos of William of Orange being some kind of great Protestant champion who triumphed over the evil Catholics (despite the actual facts that William's allies at the time were the Catholic King of Spain and the Pope).
The renamed his usurpation, "The Glorious Revolution", and they lionesed his cause as that of "Religious Toleration" (ie. the supression of Catholicism and the native majority). The Orange Order, which exists to this day, is built on Sectarianism and religious hatred. It has caused a rift in Irish society (and Scottish too later on), the "Protestant vs Catholic" bitterness which to this day is a poison.

Never again, did the two divides unite & Britain had neutralised any further threat from a united Ireland for several centuries.
Divide and Rule had done it's job.

In the international media, one does hear a lot about the "Irish terrorists" (meaning the Catholics, the IRA, the IRIA etc),

Yes, we hear little about the Loyalist terrorists despite the fact that their normal MO is simply to target innocent civilians based on religion and carry out atrocities against the public (which helps re-enforce the sectarian divide and bitterness), and that they have never decomissioned their weapons (we now know were/are provided by the British) despite being responsible for the majority of violence and crime for the past 20 years.
Just goes to show the power of the media.

yet when we were going to leave the republic to go into Northern Ireland one time, people looked at us as though we were really brave (I was with an Irishman)... their eyes would grow wide when they'd tell stories of how they got close to the border once, or they even crossed the border (no shit, depictions were that dramatic)... and we knew that we were mad to drive a car with Republic license plates... so I got quite nervous.

It's quite interesting at the border, isn't it?
About 10 years ago, I drove some friends from Belfast to Dublin.
Driving through East Belfast and down through south Antrim and north Armagh, the place is festooned with Union Jacks, Loyalist paramilitary grafitti and even the kerbstones are painted red, white and blue. It has to be seen to be believed as nowhere else in the UK (except for some Loyalist areas in Scotland) has anything to remotely similar.
Then for a short while it disappears until you get to places like Newry near the border in South Armagh. Then by the roadside there are actually shrines to Republican martyrs, large plaques surrounded by Irish tri-colours. It's quite a contrast. At least you know which direction you are heading. No need for sat-nav there

We considered taking a de-tour into "Bandit Territory", to places like Crossmaglen where the IRA's notorious South Armagh Command ensure that the British police give it a wide-berth and leave it to it's own affairs. But unlike you, we had British number plates and decided it best to avoid any misunderstanding in case they fired first and asked questions later

While there, we got a lot of aggressively hostile stares (I'm assuming it's because they saw our car ) and had a few insults dished out, we even had one guy spit at our feet upon learning the man I was with was from the Republic,

My friends, having not seen a toilet in a while, answered nature's call against a house with "UDA" emblazoned on the side of that, if that makes you feel any better

but the thing that surprised me the most was when we spent the night in Bangor, we woke up the next morning to hear that a Catholic Primary School and a Catholic Church had been bombed overnight. :-O A Primary School and a Church!!! Of course, you would never hear about that in the international media.

No, funny that, isn't it?

Anyway, if I ever go back again, it will not be during the Marching Season.

You know that several years ago, the Orange Order wanted to turn marching season into some kind of tourist event like St. Patrick's Day in Dublin or New York? I think they quietly dropped the idea when they realised that it would be a huge PR coup for Irish Republicanism once the world was allowed to see them in all their venemous hatred. A pity, we could reallyhave profited from that

[Dvx]

Deep insight, indeed

Astonished.

[Benen an ynys]

Originally Posted by Milesian

When you put it like that, it is absurd, isn't it?
I'm used to just taking for granted that they are that way. It's bred into them, I guess. It's a poisonous mentality passed down among them from generation to generation. But we should be careful to remember that they were not always this way. They have been conditioned to be this way.
Several centuries ago, the worst fear of the British happened.
The Protestant Planters they settled in Ireland on confiscated lands to drive a wedge in the population began to harbour their own desire to be free of British rule. For centuries, many of them suffered under British rule as well. For many of them had come from Scotland and were Presbyterians. As such, they were Non-Conformists. As they were not part of the Established Church, they were legally classed as "Recusants". And while they did not suffer the same degree of violent persecution as the Catholics (which by this time included the old Anglo-Irish Catholic families who had settled before the Reformation and where by now largely indistinguishable from the Gaelic Irish Catholics in all but name), they did suffer various legal handicaps as well. A group of Presbyterians in Belfast became unhappy with this as well as the crippling protective tariffs that Britain imposed on Irish trade and industry, and they became enamoured with the new ideals emanating from Revolutionary France. In the 18th century, they formed The Society of United Irishmen. They wanted independence and they even became involved in the cause of Catholic Emancipation. For them,there was to be no distinction anymore between Catholic or Protestant. They simply considered all to be Irish. They joined their relative political sophistication with the manpower of the Catholic agrarian rebels such as the "Defenders". Men such as Theobald Wolfe Tone even went to France and secured French military assistance, which was promptly landed at Killala. In fact, the combined French and Irish forces made inroads and captured parts of western Ireland, as a song commemorates

"The hill-tops with glory were glowing,
Twas the eve of a bright harvest day,
When the ships we'd been wearily waiting
Sailed into Killala's broad bay
And over the hills went the slogan
to awaken in every breast
The fire that has never been quenched, boys
Among the true hearts of the west

Killala was ours by midnight
And high over Ballina town
Our banners in triumph were waving
Before the next sun had gone down
We gather to speed the good work, boys
The true men anear and afar
And history can tell how we routed
The Redcoats through old Castlebar"

Bearing in mind that whatever else, this was Protestant and Catholics joined together under the identity of Irishmen, in opposition to British rule.

This gave the British a huge fright. The Irish themselves were ill-equipped, armed with little more than pikes (much to the dismay of the French when they arrived lol) considering that the country had been disarmed for generations by the British (even owning a horse worth more than a certain amount would mean being publicly flogged). After being taken initially by surprise, the British were eventually able to re-assert their authority and crushed the rebellion. But the shock they had recieved not only by seeing their own Planter lackeys unite with the Irish against them, but also seeing their old enemy, France, using Ireland as a backdoor to attack them, gave them serious cause for concern.

They utterly supressed the Society of United Irishmen, and to prevent such a thing ever happening again they introduced a new society - The Orange Order. This was to be the antithesis of the SUI. It was built around a fabricated mythos of William of Orange being some kind of great Protestant champion who triumphed over the evil Catholics (despite the actual facts that William's allies at the time were the Catholic King of Spain and the Pope).
The renamed his usurpation, "The Glorious Revolution", and they lionesed his cause as that of "Religious Toleration" (ie. the supression of Catholicism and the native majority). The Orange Order, which exists to this day, is built on Sectarianism and religious hatred. It has caused a rift in Irish society (and Scottish too later on), the "Protestant vs Catholic" bitterness which to this day is a poison.

Never again, did the two divides unite & Britain had neutralised any further threat from a united Ireland for several centuries.
Divide and Rule had done it's job.

That does explain a lot Milesian. Thank you for giving us those insights.

It would be interesting to know how the British of the day were able to propagate such fabrications so successfully. Why did so many of the protestants of Ireland come to forget so quickly and absolutely that they were once supportive of, and united with, the Irish Catholics?

Very scary when you think that the authorities can just re-write history to suit their own agendas... and then whatever they re-write becomes people's realities. I suppose most of us are aware that it happens, but that knowledge most often doesn't really create an impact until you can sit back and objectively view it at work.


Yet, I wonder if it is also possible that many of the protestant men who are so angry and so hateful toward (Irish) Catholics (for seemingly no good reason) could just be channeling anger, and perhaps powerlessness, from other areas of their lives into the only cause they see readily and obviously available to them? Sometimes I think many men (not all, of course) just need something to fight for... and a good proportion of them don't really care what it is, as long as they get to actively express their aggression and feel "alive" in the process. Better guidance is needed for such men.

Originally Posted by Milesian

Yes, we hear little about the Loyalist terrorists despite the fact that their normal MO is simply to target innocent civilians based on religion and carry out atrocities against the public (which helps re-enforce the sectarian divide and bitterness), and that they have never decomissioned their weapons (we now know were/are provided by the British) despite being responsible for the majority of violence and crime for the past 20 years.
Just goes to show the power of the media.

Yes.

Originally Posted by Milesian

It's quite interesting at the border, isn't it?
About 10 years ago, I drove some friends from Belfast to Dublin.
Driving through East Belfast and down through south Antrim and north Armagh, the place is festooned with Union Jacks, Loyalist paramilitary grafitti and even the kerbstones are painted red, white and blue. It has to be seen to be believed as nowhere else in the UK (except for some Loyalist areas in Scotland) has anything to remotely similar.
Then for a short while it disappears until you get to places like Newry near the border in South Armagh. Then by the roadside there are actually shrines to Republican martyrs, large plaques surrounded by Irish tri-colours. It's quite a contrast. At least you know which direction you are heading. No need for sat-nav there

It is quite bizarre. As we drove around areas that were as you decribed... protestant areas with painted street kerbs, pictures of the Queen in shop and house windows, Union Jack flags etc. the only thing that kept going through my mind was what shit stirrers the protestants are. They must be desperate for a kicking. I also felt sorry for the people that had to live that way - the general atmosphere of tension and supressed aggression was unmistakable. That's no way for children to grow up. The Catholic areas were less extreme in general, but some areas were covered in pro-RIRA graffiti and sides of large buildings had these huge, amazing, politically themed murals and paintings.

All in all, I was relieved the cross the border again back into the Republic. Back into sanity.

Originally Posted by Milesian

We considered taking a de-tour into "Bandit Territory", to places like Crossmaglen where the IRA's notorious South Armagh Command ensure that the British police give it a wide-berth and leave it to it's own affairs. But unlike you, we had British number plates and decided it best to avoid any misunderstanding in case they fired first and asked questions later

Very wise, Milesian.

Originally Posted by Milesian

My friends, having not seen a toilet in a while, answered nature's call against a house with "UDA" emblazoned on the side of that, if that makes you feel any better

LOL!! Did he sign his name?

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Benen an ynys

That does explain a lot Milesian. Thank you for giving us those insights.

It would be interesting to know how the British of the day were able to propagate such fabrications so successfully. Why did so many of the protestants of Ireland come to forget so quickly and absolutely that they were once supportive of, and united with, the Irish Catholics?

It's complicated and likely several factors came into it.
First, the United Irishmen did not represent all, or even the majority of the Planters. The leaders were middle-class, educated men. They had risen above their purpose of being were they were at that time and place in history. The Planters were there to put a divisive wedge in Ireland's population. It's a technique well-used by the British establishment all over the world. Send in a minority of colonists, give them land and advantages denied to the occupied people, and let things run their course. Inevitably, the natives get quite upset at having their property stolen and being treated liek second class citizens in their own land. The colonists, surrounded by hostile natives, soon develop a siege mentality whereby they are forced to look towards Britain for their security and survival. They then become the most fanatical and loyal of subjects & at the same time develop deep resentment (borne mostly out of fear of meeting their just deserts) and hatred of the natives. This crude animosity is what keeps the hatred alive, the death toll mounting, and the British in control.

The new Orange mythology pandered to that mindset in two ways -
First, it justified the colinists presence. Somehow, they were the oppressed in the past but with the coming of their champion, King Billy, they were liberated and set free. So in fact, their oppression of the natives is actually justice being served.
Second, there is the reason noted by the 17th century writer and traveller Fynes Moryson (himself an English Protestant) who noted with regard to the new history that had been created (to paraphrase), that "even the most worthless Protestant, if he had nothing else to boast of, at least found it pleasing to think of himself as a member of a dominant race".
In other words, it flattered the colonists. And the great mass of people are greatly swayed by such things. Most people, sadly, would prefer to subscribe to a flattering historical portrayl of themselves than a true one.

Very scary when you think that the authorities can just re-write history to suit their own agendas... and then whatever they re-write becomes people's realities.

Through time, the lie is perpetuated through ignorance.
Most of them have never head any different version of history other than the official Orange one. And if anyone were to offer an alternative which painted them in a less than flattering light, how likely are they to embrace it?

I suppose most of us are aware that it happens, but that knowledge most often doesn't really create an impact until you can sit back and objectively view it at work.

Precisely. In the end, it's better to face the truth rather than languish in ignorance.

Yet, I wonder if it is also possible that many of the protestant men who are so angry and so hateful toward (Irish) Catholics (for seemingly no good reason) could just be channeling anger, and perhaps powerlessness, from other areas of their lives into the only cause they see readily and obviously available to them?

I don't think there's any doubt about it.

Sometimes I think many men (not all, of course) just need something to fight for... and a good proportion of them don't really care what it is, as long as they get to actively express their aggression and feel "alive" in the process. Better guidance is needed for such men.

It's the warrior ethos I guess. In a traditionally tribal society such as Ireland, such animosity takes on a life of it's own after a while.
Better education would help some people. Others though are either unwiling to or incapable of being educated.

It is quite bizarre. As we drove around areas that were as you decribed... protestant areas with painted street kerbs, pictures of the Queen in shop and house windows, Union Jack flags etc. the only thing that kept going through my mind was what shit stirrers the protestants are.

I'm going to use the word Unionists instead of "Protestants" here, as the latter denotes a sectarian mindset which is really what perpetuates the existence of Unionism/Loyalism. But yes, I agree. In fact, provocation and "shit-stirring" is their entire raison d'etre.
And even if you only encounter them on forums like these, you will quickly realise that they are extremely good at what they do. Patricularly noticable is that they expertly deflect the conversation away from uncomfortable things like historical facts that start to touch a nerve, and try to ellicit emotional responses instead by making some outragous or insulting slur. It's a skill borne of generations of doing this one thing. In a sense, it's a kind of family business. Logic and truth are not their forté, but rhetoric certainly lies within their area of natural expertise.

They must be desperate for a kicking. I also felt sorry for the people that had to live that way - the general atmosphere of tension and supressed aggression was unmistakable. That's no way for children to grow up. The Catholic areas were less extreme in general, but some areas were covered in pro-RIRA graffiti and sides of large buildings had these huge, amazing, politically themed murals and paintings.

Hatred begets hatred unfortunately, even if wholly understandably.

All in all, I was relieved the cross the border again back into the Republic. Back into sanity.

Sanity? I wouldn't go that far

LOL!! Did he sign his name?

I don't think he had time, as one of the Orcs appeared from within and was fairly taken by surprise upon seeing the dastardly deed in progress

[Brian Foley]

Originally Posted by Benen an ynys

Despite me knowing about certain religious tensions in the British Isles, this sort of reaction was a surprise to me too. But maybe there was some kind of subtext to this situation that outsiders can't understand? I'm not sure.

A near riot erupted when Gasgoigne pretended to play a flute imitating an Orange March at one game, but that alone coupled with the blessing is a giveaway to the real cause.

Religion is a convenient dividing line the British press use to mask the true nature of the incident, but it is not an accurate description, the base fact of the clash is Celt vs German, Benys. Lowland squatters in Scotland are the same breed as the Ulster squatters in occupied Eire, both originate in Germanic England even Holland and Germany itself. And both those squatter populations back the Rangers FC, because it is British. The Celtic FC side represents the Celtic people of Ireland and Scotland, the Gaels.

Here is an accurate run down, in a discussion by real Irish and Scottish youth.

If the Irish colonized Scotland (Dalriada) and my Clan...

Answer by uladh_gael

too many of our more "loyal" citizens bring shame on the word "Scottish" and abuse the Scots culture in such a way as to portray it as anti Irish. I my self believe that the Irish catholics have more in common with Scots protestant highlanders than Irish Protestants, eg. our common Gaelic language, our names, our features and our outlook. Ireland and Scotland are indeed one nation joined by water rather than divided by it, too much english self interest has seeped in and set the rot though, imagine if we could set aside religious and political differences and unite under the banner of GAEL how much influence the eireannach/albanach could assert. Erin go brach,,,Alba go brach

Irish and their Scottish Highland Brother and Sisters, my surname of Foley is Irish and my Mothers maiden name of Grant is of Scottish origin.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by BrianFoley

A near riot erupted when Gasgoigne pretended to play a flute imitating an Orange March at one game,

It's common before the game and at half-time to play traditional club songs over the PA system. At Ibrox, the tunes are played by a flute.
Although they cannot play overtly sectarian songs by law (although their supporters regularly sing them anyway, such as "The Famine Song"), by playing tamer songs with a flute, the significance is not lost either on their own support or the opposition. It is evocative of an Orange marching band.

[donTomas]

Sectarian mob attack woman\\\\\'s home

A woman's home has been targeted by a loyalist mob of up to 20 people in a sectarian attack in the Fountain estate in Londonderry.

The windows of the house in Aubrey Street were smashed during the incident on Tuesday night.

The woman, who is a Catholic, was at home at the time, but was not injured.

The police have said they are treating the attack as sectarian. They have appealed for anyone with information to contact them at Strand Road.

The attack happened in the Fountain estate on Wednesday

[Milesian]

This is getting more and more common. There's no IRA to defend the communities anymore and so the Loyalist gangsters have free rein to terrorise the people once again, just like they did in the late 60's when they began ethnically cleansing the six counties & forcing floods of refugees over the border to the Republic (which resulted in thebirth of PIRA).

Of course, this isn't terrorism.
Only the Irish can be terrorists.
As one song puts it - "Murder isn't murder when it serves the crown so well"





"It's not those who can inflict the most, but those who can suffer the most, who will conquer" - Terence MacSwiney (Tordhealbhach Mac Suibhne), Lord Mayor of Cork and martyr

Terence MacSwiney - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Yago]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when in 1921 the IRA resolved to continue operating in Northern Ireland, their utmost concern was not republicanism or other but it was the protection of the Irish men and women in that part of Ireland that remained under occupation.

The reunion of Ireland would be second only to the defense of the Irish people. And it is my opinion that this is not open to interpretations, in that Catholic is implied without reserves when I say 'Irish'.

Since their deviation to Marxist Socialism, one should reasonably expect that the concerns and goals of the IRA varied. Gradually until reaching the extreme of total abandonment of the Irish.

[donTomas]

Catholic teenager beaten by loyalist gang in Coleraine (Wednesday, 8 July 2009)

A Catholic teenager has been attacked and beaten up by a loyalist gang in Coleraine, police have said.

The attack on the 17-year-old was being treated as a sectarian hate crime, a police spokeswoman confirmed.

The victim was assaulted and verbally abused during the day in a carpark in the Co Londonderry town's Long Commons.

A group of five young men, described as wearing hoodies, carried out the attack at around noon on Monday and called the victim “a Fenian bastard”.

Police appealed for anyone who witnessed the attack to contact them.

The teenager was not understood to have suffered serious life-threatening injuries.

Community tensions have continued to run high in Coleraine in the wake of the murder by a loyalist mob of Catholic community worker Kevin McDaid in May...

[Milesian]

Some other recent incident:

A priest has been assaulted by a rioter as he worked to calm tensions at an Orange march in Belfast on Friday.

BBC NEWS | UK | Northern Ireland | Rioter assaults priest at parade

Vandals damage republican graves

A murder inquiry has been launched after a 49-year-old man died following a serious assault in the Coleraine area of Co Derry.

Local politicians say Kevin Mc Daid was fatally wounded when a large group of loyalists, armed with sticks, drove into a housing estate following football matches in Scotland, involving Rangers and Celtic.

RTÉ News: 11 detained over Coleraine murder

Of course, this isn't something new but rather the continued background violence tolerated by the British state in Northern Ireland against the Nationalist population. Six years ago, things looked pretty much the same.

Loyalist attacks on Catholics (July-October 2003) - Irish Nationalism

[Wat Tyler]

Originally Posted by BrianFoley

Lowland squatters in Scotland are the same breed as the Ulster squatters in occupied Eire, both originate in Germanic England even Holland and Germany itself.

'Lowland squatters?' What's one of those then?

'Germanic England?' You're not going all Skadi on us, are you Brian?

[Yago]

Whatever they are, I'll show you how you are actual part and active party of it as soon as I get back home.

Whatever the reason, your disregard (or total ignorance) for the actual identities in the isles is of marxist dimensions. Whatever else you might like to call it.

[Brian Foley]

Originally Posted by Wat Tyler

'Lowland squatters?' What's one of those then?

'Germanic England?' You're not going all Skadi on us, are you Brian?

Skadi, man I dont know, Im new to all these Nationalist forums, I seem to be out of place most of the time not fitting in, even the Irish Nationalist forum I dont fit in with. But hey I didnt mean you, as you are from Cider country, mmmm yum , Scrumpy on a warm summers afternoon.

[Benen an ynys]

Originally Posted by BrianFoley

Skadi, man I dont know, Im new to all these Nationalist forums, I seem to be out of place most of the time not fitting in, even the Irish Nationalist forum I dont fit in with. But hey I didnt mean you, as you are from Cider country, mmmm yum , Scrumpy on a warm summers afternoon.

I think the best thing is to not care about fitting in. If people get their feathers ruffled by you expressing your thoughts and ideas, it's not such a bad thing. Bugger walking around on egg-shells. Aussies are no good with diplomacy (read : bullshitting) anyway.

[Milesian]

Exactly, what's the point of discussion forums if you can't debate different points of view?

[Wat Tyler]

Originally Posted by Yago

Whatever the reason, your disregard (or total ignorance) for the actual identities in the isles is of marxist dimensions.

I'd be very interested in you explaining that.

Originally Posted by BrianFoley

Skadi, man I dont know, Im new to all these Nationalist forums

Wasn't having a go at you. I was just having a jibe at the sentence you made. It took me back to the Skadi days.

Scrumpy on a warm summers afternoon.

I hate cider. It tastes like piss. It also plays havoc with my temperament and indigestion.
I much prefer Guinness or a bitter, washed down with lots of whiskey.

[Yago]

Originally Posted by Wat Tyler

I'd be very interested in you explaining that.

Sure. I've observed how you do disregard and even take on a light mockery expressed elements of the [ancient] identity of the isles as if pretending that they were products of obsolete wims that don't fit into [whatever] your scheme of things of 'britishness' (which you appear to confuse with 'britonnic', or as you call it 'celtic brotherhood'ness').

But I fear that such a discusion might derive into a warning to stick one's noses out of others' businesses..... so I wonder how interested you really would be.