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This reminds me a little of problems in Canada between English and French speakers. However, the French speakers in Canada aren't confined exclusively to Quebec. There are pockets in Manitoba, Northern Ontario, and also in the Maritimes (especially New Brunswick). Though there are two official languages in Canada and it may appear to be "working" from the outside, there are considerable political tensions and it can be difficult to find French service in smaller (primarily English) areas and in nongovernment places. *shrug*
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suchen. geben. lieben. leben.
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Swedish as an official language is on the way out. And its about time, in my opinion. It should not be up to the state to uphold artificial bilingualism in this case, and I think it would be good if Swedish-speakers realized this (I am myself from a bilingual family).
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The more I learn about it, the more that it looks to me as a mess of uncertain consequences.
If the ethnic Swedish minority faded away or if it lost completely its signs of identity to be engulfed by the Finnish, how would this affect the relations between Sweden and Finland? Or between Swedes and Finns? And what about the Finnish minority in Sweden?
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'Dardanidae duri, quae uos a stirpe parentum prima tulit tellus, eadem uos ubere laeto
accipiet reduces. Antiquam exquirite matrem: hic domus Aeneae cunctis dominabitur oris, et nati natorum, et qui nascentur ab illis.' We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. –Plato– |
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I'm only asking for one thing, to Finns who read what I'm writing here. I don't want another Swedish vs. Finnish conflict. Please, just don't assume that I mean something that I don't say clearly.
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And then, there are clear indications that the law from 1922 is not practiced, and has been overrun systematically: Quote:
I'm not surprised at tensions, especially since what is said to be a bilingual state seems to mean [Language #1 = Finnish] and [Language #2 = Swedish], and to begin with the state is founded upon two rather different groups culturally. Just look at this statement: Quote:
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Exactly how far back ethnic Finnish presence in Sweden dates I also don't know. We had a discussion on shared ethnic minorities between Sweden and Finland, and opinions differed on the question. What was agreed upon was that Finnish presence goes at least as far back as somewhere around the year 1600 or shortly after.
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Den västerländska traditionen kan man vara trogen bara genom att ifrågasätta den med förnuftet som måttstock. Svante Nordin, Det pessimistiska förnuftet Wir haben eine ältere Offenbarung als jede geschriebene, die Natur. Friedrich Schelling, Über das Wesen der menschlichen Freiheit |
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Once I got to know a Finn (woman) who told me that she learned Swedish at school, as all do, however, that she did not speak it. She said she understood Swedish well when heard and that she had a reading knowledge of it.
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Finland is one of the most linguistically homogenous countries in Europe, and I see no reason why the whole country should remain officially bilingual. There's traditional minorities in many countries that aren't officially bilingual. While I already support moving power increasingly to local levels, I would naturally prefer language issues to be decided locally. I don't have anything against preserving Swedish language in Finland, but there simply is no way to prevent Finnish being used as a common language of the country and trying this in the state level is extremely impractical. Speculation of the originality of Swedish language in Finland is irrelevant in this discussion, because it is known that the group contains a majority of Finnish-speakers that at certain point of history were changing their language to improve their status. So the group is not anything 'foreign' or imported anyway (and personally I wouldn't care if they'd all be immigrants from the 14th century). But the same can be said about the (traditional) Finnish minority in Sweden: in the 17th century the Swedish crown simply moved some of his subjects to a different area inside it's realm. The modern, economically based migrations are a whole different issue, of course. |
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Attachment: More background and information, in English and French, on Finlandswedes and Swedish in Finland, in handy PDF format. My thanks to Mynydd who found it.
For example, this publication debunks the sadly enough rather commonplace idea that there are no ethnic Finlandswedes. Thread moved to Ethnopolitics, where it belongs.
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Den västerländska traditionen kan man vara trogen bara genom att ifrågasätta den med förnuftet som måttstock. Svante Nordin, Det pessimistiska förnuftet Wir haben eine ältere Offenbarung als jede geschriebene, die Natur. Friedrich Schelling, Über das Wesen der menschlichen Freiheit |
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This sounds like an attempt to give the reader a picture of a straight-forward ethnogenesis that resulted in a distinct, uniform population. Genetics tells a different story: all estimations of Finnish ancestry in modern Swedish speakers that I have seen have given results ranging from a little more than 50% to 75-80%. These kind of studies are however quite dependent on the Finnish speaking reference population. The more recent population developments in Sweden may also have some influence. |
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Finland-Swedes are a very heterogenous group and to simplify the situation into a question of an ethnic Swedish minority in Finland is simply atrociously false.
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Uppsala social services manager issues ’Swedish only’ decree
Last year, the Finnish employees at one office of the Uppsala City Social Services Department were forbidden to speak Finnish to each other at work. The ban has led to a dispute that is now being handled by both the Swedish Discrimination Ombudsman and the Council of Europe. The decree issued by one manager provoked bad feeling among the staff in the spring of last year. The employer stressed that the official language of the Social Services Department is Swedish, while no other languages must be used in public premises, including the hall and the coffee room. Helsingin Sanomat |
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This is curious. Something that you said earlier looked to me as if you were calling or wishing for the ethnic disintegration of "Finland Swedes", and their assimilation into the Finnish ethnic group: Quote:
Quite some strong statements here.
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'Dardanidae duri, quae uos a stirpe parentum prima tulit tellus, eadem uos ubere laeto
accipiet reduces. Antiquam exquirite matrem: hic domus Aeneae cunctis dominabitur oris, et nati natorum, et qui nascentur ab illis.' We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. –Plato– |
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I am not referring myself as a Swede despite stemming from Swedish extraction and the fact that my mother even holds a Swedish citizenship, however I believe it's perfectly justified for Swedish descended folk native to Swedish language to refer themselves as "Swedes" if they wish to do that. Besides many Fennoswedes are of relatively recent Swedish stock (in an addition to the initial wave in (1250-1400) such as my family and Mannerheim f.e whose both lineages (materal and paternal) came to Finland from Sweden very recently back in his times, ofcourse. Last edited by PeterThaGreat; Thursday, December 13th, 2007 at 15:33. |
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(Just a recent article in Finnish illustrating the topic by the emeritius professor of history of the university of Åbo) Turun Sanomat Quote:
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Stay out from the genetics not your sharpest tool. The fact is that genetical affinities can only be reliably tested by genomine DNA studies and so far Fennoswedes have not been sampled. Most Fennoswedes are descended from Central-Swedish settlers, particularly from Helsingland. Fennoswedes have Finnish admixture in varying degree depending on a region (close to zero in Alanders, little in the rural coastal dwellers, pretty much in the city bourgoise) due to the fact that there's always been Finnish chicks involved to some extent, however I don't see this as a prove of heterogenenity, the overwhelming majority of Fennoswedes live in a very uniform culture, whether they had some additional Finnish or German influence. Also, remember Fennoswede in racial context is only a person born the Fennoswedish parents, not to a parent. Last edited by PeterThaGreat; Thursday, December 13th, 2007 at 14:55. |