Post-Nationalist Europe?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

As a note to myself, the French model of integration which I have read you (and other French) mentioning often is a one case which should be given much consideration for the construction of a future development of nationalism in Europe..

This is even debated in the French nationalist movement. Some of those members and leaders support the 'assimilation' (or enculturation) of immigrants (Alain Soral, Marine Le Pen, the FN, some NR movements) while others don't consider them to be French at all (Identitarians and some other ultra-nationalist movements).

My opinion is that in a country where more than 15% of citizens are of non-European descent, and that a majority of French people consider them to be perfectly French, being 'French nationalist' will soon become just as meaningless as American or Brazilian "nationalism".

It sure should be given much consideration for other European nations if they don't want to end up like contemporary France.

[Menydh]

Yes, I know that this is a fact.

The only real hope for Europe is, unfortunately, a sharp economic crisis which ignites the ethnic conflict. And this will work only while there are countries where assimilationism has not yet reached the levels that you mention for France.

If those levels are reached elsewhere, the ignition of an ethnic conflict is still a strong possibility, but the consequences would surely be of a different magnitude, and the results unforseeable.

I suspect that many politicians know this only too well, and that that is the reason why they have accelerated the process, in the hope that time will stretch enough and that peoples will have lost all sense of identity before any such even could ignite an ethnic conflict.

But this is all about hopes and probabilities. They hope that the future will be multirracial and we hope that ethnic diversity will be preserved in Europe. We cannot focus only in the event of a probability. It is essential to consider the other probabilities, and to be prepared for such an event.

Not sure if I'm making myself clear enough here.

[OneEnglishNorman]

IMHO what is possible is perhaps a breakaway small nation such as Cornwall or Brittany, seeking to protect their people from outsiders, both European and non-European. So such a policy would not be explicitly racist.

Places like France and England are on a different magnitude. Their bigger size works against them. Smaller nations / businesses / groups are quicker and more pro-active in making things happen. What is happening in Belgium is a big political shift which the ruling classes perhaps did not foresee. So I suppose there is hope.

[Exeter]

Assimilation as in cultural, intermarriages, or both?

Originally Posted by Mynydd

And this will work only while there are countries where assimilationism has not yet reached the levels that you mention for France.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman

IMHO what is possible is perhaps a breakaway small nation such as Cornwall or Brittany, seeking to protect their people from outsiders, both European and non-European. So such a policy would not be explicitly racist.

Places like France and England are on a different magnitude. Their bigger size works against them. Smaller nations / businesses / groups are quicker and more pro-active in making things happen. What is happening in Belgium is a big political shift which the ruling classes perhaps did not foresee. So I suppose there is hope.

It is for just such reasons that I would be turning against any political union between Ireland and Great Britain if I was not already convinced.

[OneEnglishNorman]

Originally Posted by Errigal

It is for just such reasons that I would be turning against any political union between Ireland and Great Britain if I was not already convinced.

Yeah. Well hypothetically if a union existed, once an immigrant set foot in Dover or Heathrow, they can settle and procreate anywhere on the Isles.

At least having 5 or 6 states instead of 1, there exist more "firewalls" against the immigrant.

Also, why should a Welshman care about the racial integrity of "Britain". It's a lot easier to be involved and concerned when the decision on who can enter and live on your land is made locally.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman

Yeah. Well hypothetically if a union existed, once an immigrant set foot in Dover or Heathrow, they can settle and procreate anywhere on the Isles.

At least having 5 or 6 states instead of 1, there exist more "firewalls" against the immigrant.

Also, why should a Welshman care about the racial integrity of "Britain". It's a lot easier to be involved and concerned when the decision on who can enter and live on your land is made locally.

Unfortunately Ireland is totally chained to London's open-door migration policy. Like so many things the government uses EU integration and market forces as an excuse.

The only immigration policy I like the sound of is the one in Switzerland they may soon abandon:

BBC NEWS | Europe | Swiss citizenship system \'racist\'

[Martín Zalacaín]

About the news Errigal posted (slightly off-topic and ingenuous, sorry)

From: BBC News | Swiss citizen system "racist"

It cites the case of a disabled man originally from Kosovo. Although fulfilling all the legal criteria, his application for citizenship was rejected by his community on the grounds that his disability made him a burden on taxpayers, and that he was Muslim.
The report recommends that decisions on citizenship should be decided by an elected executive and not by the community as a whole. But such a move is likely to encounter stiff opposition.

This shows the two main tendencies in Europe:

1- Authorities "caring" about minorities in detriment to mayorities. Disabled muslim midgets with AIDS must be integrated in our societies, otherwise we are "racist".

2- People don't want foreign minorities around them. Therefore they are racist and a non-racist elected executive should decide for them.

Is there any thread where you've been discussing how to reverse or fight this tendencies? How to make people understand that racial and cultural unity is important? I mean, besides getting infuriated, what else can we do?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman

IMHO what is possible is perhaps a breakaway small nation such as Cornwall or Brittany, seeking to protect their people from outsiders, both European and non-European. So such a policy would not be explicitly racist.

Places like France and England are on a different magnitude. Their bigger size works against them. Smaller nations / businesses / groups are quicker and more pro-active in making things happen.

The way things are at present, smaller populations are more at risk precisely because the effects of fewer immigrants is more devastating.

Their only chance would be if their economies were so poor that it wouldn't make them attractive to immigrants.

Besides, most of the so-called nationalist parties in those regions are in reality about language nationalism, not ethnic. In other words, they would consider a Senegalese who spoke their language as one of them.

What is happening in Belgium is a big political shift which the ruling classes perhaps did not foresee. So I suppose there is hope.

The only hope for countries like Belgium or The Netherlands comes from Europe. On their own, there is no possible reversing to their situation.

Originally Posted by Exeter

Assimilation as in cultural, intermarriages, or both?

Cultural, at least maintaining an idea of seggregation in the collective subconscious.

When you see, for example, a European people identifying themselves with the non Europeans who live in their own country, in front of other Europeans, you know that things have arrived to a level beyond critical.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

Is there any thread where you've been discussing how to reverse or fight this tendencies? How to make people understand that racial and cultural unity is important? I mean, besides getting infuriated, what else can we do?

You'll find many threads where the issue is discussed, in this sub-forum (Ethnopolitics).

But most significant, in my opinion, it has been the trend started at Stirpes to alienate ourselves from the lunatic fringes, creating a space where normal people like us can come and not feel like this is a place of worship and extremism, but where we raise our concerns about our future and own preservation and offer to help one another.

[Martín Zalacaín]

But most significant, in my opinion, it has been the trend started at Stirpes to alienate ourselves from the lunatic fringes, creating a space where normal people like us can come and not feel like this is a place of worship and extremism, but where we raise our concerns about our future and own preservation and offer to help one another. 29 Minutes Ago 09:09

In that you have succeed. Thank's for answering.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by OneEnglishNorman

IMHO what is possible is perhaps a breakaway small nation such as Cornwall or Brittany, seeking to protect their people from outsiders, both European and non-European. So such a policy would not be explicitly racist.

I think it would be a good solution, but I would add that we should also encourage 'localism' and regional identity (in general, the putting down of roots) as expression of a European specificity against urban multicultural centers. Especially in big countries like France or England.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Their only chance would be if their economies were so poor that it wouldn't make them attractive to immigrants.

Here are the limits of the capitalist system for our survival.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Besides, most of the so-called nationalist parties in those regions are in reality about language nationalism, not ethnic. In other words, they would consider a Senegalese who spoke their language as one of them.

Yes, it's the problem of such movements - as in Brittany, where many (young) independentists are rather leftists.
Hopefully, other parties exist (like “Adsav!” for Breizh), and they are on the good side.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

The only hope for countries like Belgium or The Netherlands comes from Europe. On their own, there is no possible reversing to their situation.

What do you mean by Europe ?

Originally Posted by Mynydd

When you see, for example, a European people identifying themselves with the non Europeans who live in their own country, in front of other Europeans, you know that things have arrived to a level beyond critical.

In such a case where the situation is critical (like in France) priorities must surely be changed for nationalists.

The thing is what direction should we take ? Alliance with 'separatist' non-Europeans or a sort of national-communitarianism ?

Do you think that, for exemple, the idea of Identitarians are adapted for our context ?
I think yes, in a certain extent, but the problem is that they are often not "politically realist" enough and they don't attract enough people. This problem of "eternel minority" for nationalist parties should be resolved one day or another. And this is also a problem of diffusion of our ideas in that liberal society. So, that’s a more complexe question than we might think.