Marxism and immigration to Europe

[Menydh]

I think that it is a mistake that is being made by focusing on the faults of Marxism and latter Communist movements, while ignoring the historical development of mass immigration into Europe.

Originally Posted by Seekers

Marxism and its various spin-offs say that identity is something that comes out of materialistic criteria based on a person's place in the scheme of production. In this scheme of production, the workers are in this quote encouraged to unite, regardless of where they come from. I refrain from putting that as "regardless of ethnicity", since in marxism the concept of ethnicity is irrelevant.

You are right. The concept of ethnicity is irrelevant for Marxism. And as such, it doesn't matter if there are Communist-derived countries (or movements) that followed strict policies against immigration (or promoted nationalist-like ideas), or if there were other Communist-derived countries or movements that did the opposite.

One important question that's been ignored so far through the discussion is how much power of influence did the Kremlin have to influence non-Communist countries in the so-called 'Western countries', so to introduce mass immigration as a means to erode these countries.

And the answer is that the Kremlin did not have this influence. To deny it would be completely irrealistic, only imaginable from a Hollywood influenced mentality.

That doesn't mean that Communism (and Socialism) is not pro-immigrationist and pro-multiculturalist. It is much so.

The origins of mass immigration introduction in Europe lie, in my opinion, on the other extreme of the same line of materialism. It lies on Capitalism.

I am not a bit surprised by the fact that the starter of this discussion with a semi-elaborated accusation has been Tennyson. I strongly suspect that he might be trying to construct a escapegoat which diverts the attention (and the blame) from other sources.

It is not the first time that he does it. See Lutheranist shot at Catholicism.

Let me explain.. in brief, if it is possible.

'Western' Liberal-Capitalist system is based first and foremost in the so-called Market Economy. Under such system, the interest of the individuals is replaced by the interests of the markets. Governments are told to not intervene in the markets, and instructed to follow the maxim of the Liberal Capitalist Economy: laissez faire. I'll skip as much as possible the functioning system of the Market Economy as it would make the post too long.

Under the tenants of the laissez-faire, with a limited ability for the state to intervene in the fluctuations of the markets, markets follow their own rules to reach the equilibrium between the demand and the supply in the direction of the maximisation of profits. This is, in very simple terms, a free market economy.

The interaction between the goods and services markets with the labour market are clear. An increase in the supply of a service, for example, requires an increase in productivity which in turn provokes an increase demand of labour. And so the labour market under the Market Economy becomes another market subject to the forces of the supply and the demand.

There is a turning point where the Market Economy needs of immigration. As the ability of the state to intervene in the prices under a Market Economy is limited --for example through a policy of protectionism over a certain good--, competition coming from exports from other countries where the costs of production are lower because of cheaper labour requires that the market solves the problem of competitivity. The more that in a labour market the supply (ie. the quantity of individuals who are unemployed and who would take on a job) exceeds the demand (ie. the quantity of jobs being offered in the market), the more that the value of labour decreases (ie., wages fall).

A way to unbalance this equilibrium in favour of excess supply of labour is, no doubt about it, injecting more supply into the market. And this injection of supply is what we call immigration.. which, by the way, it is not as simple as 1 immigrant in the country equals 1 individual injected into the supply line of the labour market. The probability numbers of the immigrants needed to increase by one individual the supply line is a matter for another discussion.

But immigration is not the only problem caused by the greed of the Market Economy. Another problem is delocalisation, whereby the industry looks forward to maximising profits by producing in countries where labour is still cheaper despite immigration in the country of origin, or simply looks forward to survive the competition.

The role of Socialists (and Communists) in the problem of mass immigration caused by the Market Economy is that of willing and useful fools. This is not to say that they are not to blame, or that their fault is so much lesser. But it is still the Capitalist system that has the bulk of the fault.

Now the side question would be why would Tennyson want to hide all of this and shift the blames by constructing a escapegoat.

The answer is contained in no few books, the more significant in my opinion being The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism, by Protestant economist Max Weber, and The Jews and Modern Capitalism, by Catholic economist Werner Sombart.

It is not as if Tennyson has not tried to construct other escapegoats: Lutheranist shot at Catholicism.

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

The role of Socialists (and Communists) in the problem of mass immigration caused by the Market Economy is that of willing and useful fools. This is not to say that they are not to blame, or that their fault is so much lesser. But it is still the Capitalist system that has the bulk of the fault.

A good summation.