We're all Germans! (and we have been for 1,600 years)

[Aptrgangr]

We're all Germans! (and we have been for 1,600 years)


Spot the difference?

It is a rivalry that has prevailed throughout two World Wars and countless football clashes. But it seems the English and Germans have more in common than one might have thought.
New research has found that the Anglo-Saxon invasion of Britain from the continent 1,600 years ago was so successful that native characteristics were virtually wiped out.
And as a result experts say this has left England with a population made up largely of Germanic genes and with a language that owes much to our Anglo-Saxon invaders.
The new study explains that the majority of original British genes were wiped out in favour of German ones through a system of apartheid set up by the invaders. This allowed the Anglo-Saxons to out-breed the Brits and our country became 'Germanised.'
It is thought between 10,000 and 200,000 Anglo-Saxons migrated from modern-day Germany, Holland and Denmark into what is now England between the fifth and seventh centuries AD. At this time there were more than two million native Britons living in the country.
But within just 15 generations, the British genes were on the way out, while the Germanic ones were flourishing.
Until now geneticists and archaeologists have been unable to reconcile how a relatively small number of invaders so successfully took over the UK gene pool. Now scientists have used computer analysis to work out how this could have been achieved within just a few hundred years.
They have concluded the Anglo-Saxons probably brought with them an apartheid regime, similar to that seen more recently in South Africa. Under this servant-master system, the Anglo-Saxons would have enjoyed a more prosperous existence and so their offspring would have flourished.
Through restricting intermarriage, they also helped prevent native British genes getting into their own population. This left England culturally and genetically 'Germanised', according to the study published in the journal Proceedings of the Royal Society B.
The authors pointed to the fact that ancient texts show a far greater value was put on the head of an Anglo-Saxon than a Briton. If an Anglo-Saxon was killed, the perpetrator's family had to pay 'blood money' two to five times greater than the fine payable for the life of a native person.
Lead researcher Dr Mark Thomas of University College London's department of Biology, said the ethnic distinction of the native British and Anglo-Saxon populations could only have lasted for so many years through some kind of social segregation.
He said: "The native Britons were genetically and culturally absorbed by the Anglo-Saxons over a period of as little as a few hundred years. An initially small invading Anglo-Saxon elite could have quickly established themselves by having more children who survived to adulthood, thanks to their military power and economic advantage.
"We believe they also prevented the native British genes getting into the Anglo-Saxon population by restricting intermarriage in a system of apartheid that left the country culturally and genetically Germanised.
"This is exactly what we see today - a population of largely Germanic genetic origin, speaking a principally German language."
The Anglo-Saxon period came to an end in 1066 when Duke William of Normandy came to England and defeated Harold in the Battle of Hastings. However the legacy of that time can be seen in modern-day place names that end in 'ham' which means settlement, 'ton' which means farm or village and 'den' which means hill.
Other words we still use today that can be traced back to the Anglo-Saxon era include daughter from 'dohter' and father from 'faether'.
By JULIE WHELDON, Daily Mail

Source

What a pity we are not allowed to be as patriotic as the Germans. We should take a leaf out of their book. Unfortunately there is not much left in England for the English to be proud of anymore.

- Nina, Notts, England

What a pity English and Germans only fly their flags when there is a football match, what a pity English and Germans confuse this retarded jingoism with patriotism.
It was the established media that made English believe we Germans were another race, a race of our own like Anglo-Saxons were an own race. There is lots to do until English patriots understand their heritage was abused and falsified for ideologies like WASP, same with Germans, it's time to wake up and see being patriot does not mean walking up and down the steet in goose step all say.

[Galaico]

Don't the last genetic studies prove the contrary?

After reading some articles and after watching some Y-Chromosome data, it looks like the Germanic genetic impact in Britain was much smaller than what was thought, prevailing the original Brythonic element.

Un estudio revela que los británicos descienden de pescadores ibéricos | Terrae Antiqvae Revista de Arqueología e Historia

[Menydh]

Fine but, are the English going to move back to Germany?

[svin]

Well, then Celts should move to Central Europe too?

[Menydh]

"Celts" in the areas that you have in mind is a cultural expansion, not a human migration or invasion. Good try though.

[Theobald]

Germans and English are perhaps the same race, so what ?
Politics is not ruled by genetics. England (at least England in her current form - and in the current geopolitical situation) and Germany have diametrically opposed and conflicting interests.
Well, after all most White Americans are also Germans then. Yeah, we're all Germans! Deutschland Uber Alles from Alaska to Berlin!

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by Galaico

Don't the last genetic studies prove the contrary?

After reading some articles and after watching some Y-Chromosome data, it looks like the Germanic genetic impact in Britain was much smaller than what was thought, prevailing the original Brythonic element.

Any thesis existing has a conflicting thesis. In this case it would be of interest how Brythonic and Germanic genes are related to each other anyway. It is likely Anglo-Saxons have a higher percentage of native British genes than they were supposed to have up so far, but that neither makes them non-Germanic nor does it debunk the fact England and parts of Scotland and even Ireland were conqered by Germanic tribes that replaced the native population that managed to survive in some areas such as Wales, Cornwall, Scottish Highlands and Ireland though.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Fine but, are the English going to move back to Germany?

No, since English belong in England. I would not mind when some move here though.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

"Celts" in the areas that you have in mind is a cultural expansion, not a human migration or invasion. Good try though.

So "Celts" are no own Europid subrace/ethnicity but just owner of some certein cultural traits that used to live in that certain area?

Originally Posted by Theobald

Germans and English are perhaps the same race, so what ?

They predominantly have the same origins.

Originally Posted by Theobald

Politics is not ruled by genetics.

Unfortunately not.

Originally Posted by Theobald

England (at least England in her current form - and in the current geopolitical situation) and Germany have diametrically opposed and conflicting interests.

England and FRG in their current form are states that need to be thrown into the trashbin of history. Add France in her today's form and you have a happy waste disposal site threesome.
I can not see where GB and FRG disagree much though..

Originally Posted by Theobald

Well, after all most White Americans are also Germans then.

They are, of Germanic and German origin. Like you said, politics is not ruled by genetics, so they have assimilated into the melting pot named USA, there is not much left of the Lousiana French either.

Originally Posted by Theobald

Yeah, we're all Germans!

You are not, for sure. But I can grant you a honorary citizenship if you wish.

Originally Posted by Theobald

Deutschland Uber Alles from Alaska to Berlin!

Your sarcasm shows English traits, you start to worry me...

[Señor Malo]

Originally Posted by svin

Well, then Celts should move to Central Europe too?

An mankind should move to Africa?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

Any thesis existing has a conflicting thesis.

Actually, not a conflicting thesis but I would suspect that a tailored thesis to suit an agenda.

What this agenda would be, is the denial of the systematic extermination of the indigenous Britons/Brythonnics by the foreign Germanic Angles and Saxons, which would give free way to a claim of ancient rights to the island.

A systematic extermination which, by the way, was also attempted in the neighbouring island, Ireland, centuries later. Incidentally, there is also an ongoing tailored agenda to deny its ancient [Irish, Gaelic] heritage to a part of the island/nation of Ireland.

In this case it would be of interest how Brythonic and Germanic genes are related to each other anyway.

Not much, I would say. I would speculate that R1b among Germanics is an acquired haplogroup through subjugation of the indigenous peoples.

It is likely Anglo-Saxons have a higher percentage of native British genes than they were supposed to have up so far

Ancient Anglo-Saxons or modern Anglo-Saxons (English)?

but that neither makes them non-Germanic nor does it debunk the fact England and parts of Scotland and even Ireland were conqered by Germanic tribes that replaced the native population that managed to survive in some areas such as Wales, Cornwall, Scottish Highlands and Ireland though.

Would it be much to ask that those who demand the right to their own ethno-racial preservation, also accept the right to the ethno-racial preservation of others?

It sounds fair to me.

No, since English belong in England. I would not mind when some move here though.

What you call England are not the ancestral lands of the Angles and the Saxons.

So "Celts" are no own Europid subrace/ethnicity but just owner of some certein cultural traits that used to live in that certain area?

First of all, I believe that "Europid" is a PC-like term with a debatable significance. But never mind about that now.

If by "Celts" you mean the modern populations which were culturally celticised by this ancient cultural spread, then they are not only Europeans but the historical genesis of anything European.

Unfortunately not.

And if politics were ruled by genetics, would you agree with a retreat back to the East of the Nordo-Germanic related genetics?

England and FRG in their current form are states that need to be thrown into the trashbin of history. Add France in her today's form and you have a happy waste disposal site threesome.
I can not see where GB and FRG disagree much though..

Out of curiousity, how would you draw the [I assume that genetic] boundaries of a post-England and post-FRG nation-state?

You are not, for sure. But I can grant you a honorary citizenship if you wish.

I'd say something..

Your sarcasm shows English traits, you start to worry me...

Where have I heard that before?

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

with a language that owes much to our Anglo-Saxon invaders.

It owes very much to the Romance idiom called Old Norman (a dialect of old oil French) as well.

And it is full of Latin words which were penetrateing into English since the 16th century (through humanism, renaissance and classicism).

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Actually, not a conflicting thesis but I would suspect that a tailored thesis to suit an agenda.

A thesis often enough was written so push an agenda, be it a conflicting thesis or not.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

What this agenda would be, is the denial of the systematic extermination of the indigenous Britons/Brythonnics by the foreign Germanic Angles and Saxons, which would give free way to a claim of ancient rights to the island.

For example. For the Britons it surely was not he best idea to hire Germanic merchants on order to fight other Brythonic tribes.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

A systematic extermination which, by the way, was also attempted in the neighbouring island, Ireland, centuries later. Incidentally, there is also an ongoing tailored agenda to deny its ancient [Irish, Gaelic] heritage to a part of the island/nation of Ireland.

I was not aware the Irish ever invited any Anglo-Saxon or Viking invaders.
The saddest thing is Celts themselves deny their heritage and no longer speak their native language.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Not much, I would say. I would speculate that R1b among Germanics is an acquired haplogroup through subjugation of the indigenous peoples.

I see. I read Celts and Germanics were related anyway since they were both of Indo-Germanic origin. I am no expert with that though.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Ancient Anglo-Saxons or modern Anglo-Saxons (English)?

Modern. It is unlikely Anglo-Saxons inherited Brythonic genes when they landed there.
Remembering from what I read about that times, Germanic men also reproduced with Celtic women, but Celtic men never with Germanic women.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Would it be much to ask that those who demand the right to their own ethno-racial preservation, also accept the right to the ethno-racial preservation of others?

Of course not, why are you asking me?

Originally Posted by Mynydd

It sounds fair to me.

I just concluded logically.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

What you call England are not the ancestral lands of the Angles and the Saxons.

I am well aware. But now it is. Germany became Germanic due to a Germanic invasion from the north-east. I wonder when the Alpinids flock together in order to kick some Germanic butts.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

First of all, I believe that "Europid" is a PC-like term with a debatable significance. But never mind about that now.

I am aware, your hair would turn grey when I started being non-PC here anyway.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

If by "Celts" you mean the modern populations which were culturally celticised by this ancient cultural spread, then they are not only Europeans but the historical genesis of anything European.

So the Celts are the real indigenous Europeans?

Originally Posted by Mynydd

And if politics were ruled by genetics, would you agree with a retreat back to the East of the Nordo-Germanic related genetics?

For sure, when there is a big Lebensborn cloning program for Neanderthals in Europe in order to make Europa as native as possible again.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Out of curiousity, how would you draw the [I assume that genetic] boundaries of a post-England and post-FRG nation-state?

Well, North Pakistan surely will show some differences compared to the North Ottoman Empire, but nevertheless they would be genetically related in the degree England and Germany are related today.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I'd say something..

You were not meant anyway

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Where have I heard that before?

No idea. In England perhaps? Anyway, I met a nice Spaniard in a German forum that claims a futurely Spanish-German border will ensure peace and stabiliy in central Europe, I am curious I get him invited here.

[svin]

What you call England are not the ancestral lands of the Angles and the Saxons.

But it's not only England's case. F.e., border of Germans with West Slavs had been moved to the east. Brethons moved from Britain to the continent, Slavs pushed some F-U people from their lands, many Baltic tribes were assimilated by Germans or Slavs or other Balts, S-E Europe was invaded by Slavs etc...