When does the recession become a "depression?"

[hermeticist]

Today in the FT:

German manufacturing orders collapse

BERLIN, Dec 5 - German manufacturing orders plunged in October after a record decline the previous month, pointing to a deepening recession in Europe’s biggest economy.

”German industry seems to be drowning in the financial crisis,” said Carsten Brzeski, an economist at ING Financial Markets. ”What started off as a relatively normal correction from very high levels has developed into serious collapse.”

Domestic orders fell 6.1 per cent, with foreign orders down 6.2 per cent, led by a drop in demand from the euro area.

”Industrial production will decline further in coming months due to the persistent weakness in orders,” the ministry said.

So when exactly do we move from recession into a "depression" -- which seems not to be clearly defined? Of course I am not naive enough to believe that there will ever be any official announcement to this effect -- officials will keep protesting otherwise up to the moment when they're deservedly stood in front of firing squads (Vive la Revolution!), but we languid sophisticates on this forum can discuss the semantics of "depression" here and whether we're headed in that general direction imminently.

I can't recall any economic crisis in living memory that compares with what we have today: I'm not an octogenarian so I don't recall the Great Depression. But for sure this is a "crisis of capitalism" from which almost none of us will emerge unscathed.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by bombadillo

So when exactly do we move from recession into a "depression" -- which seems not to be clearly defined? Of course I am not naive enough to believe that there will ever be any official announcement to this effect -- officials will keep protesting otherwise up to the moment when they're deservedly stood in front of firing squads (Vive la Revolution!), but we languid sophisticates on this forum can discuss the semantics of "depression" here and whether we're headed in that general direction imminently.

I can't recall any economic crisis in living memory that compares with what we have today: I'm not an octogenarian so I don't recall the Great Depression. But for sure this is a "crisis of capitalism" from which almost none of us will emerge unscathed.

It might be a crisis. It just happens so that I have not yet felt it on my own body. Until then, it would be a hypothetical assertion for me to call it a great crisis.

Who has felt it in their own lives and on their own bodies? And more importantly.. to what extent.

[Matilda]

When does the recession become a "depression?"

When I'm struggling to pay my gas and electricity bills and counting every penny, to the point that I'm bloody depressed with it all

[Susi]

Originally Posted by bombadillo

but we languid sophisticates on this forum can discuss the semantics of "depression" here and whether we're headed in that general direction imminently.

Well in order to discuss it semantically... you do mean a classical linguistic framework, right? >_> Or just discussing it...

It's hard for me to understand the difference in semes between "depression" and "repression" in this context. Is a depression worse? :\

I'm not an octogenarian so I don't recall the Great Depression.

Maybe now is the time to turn to our elders to receive advice, if we haven't already.

But for sure this is a "crisis of capitalism" from which almost none of us will emerge unscathed.

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

Who has felt it in their own lives and on their own bodies? And more importantly.. to what extent.

My university fees are going up and the savings my parents had to pay them went down. So have my parents' retirement savings.

I feel incredibly bitter that the last generations have effed things up so much.

Hurra for life-long poverty.

[BeliAndjeo]

Originally Posted by Morgan le Fay

When I'm struggling to pay my gas and electricity bills and counting every penny, to the point that I'm bloody depressed with it all

Welcome to Serbia

[CM245]

When all odds are against the people, and they cannot grow financially nor provide for themselves.

[Der]

Question is: are we going to get to that point? Or will the current situation end up solving it self?

[hermeticist]

Originally Posted by Der

Question is: are we going to get to that point? Or will the current situation end up solving it self?

No, no-one expects it to "solve itself" -- not even politicians and businessmen, who are rightly in a state of panic, who have thrown any ideology out the window, and are willing to undertake actions that would have been inconceivable a yer or two back. We are passengers on a high-speed train seeing another high-speed train rushing towards us -- and there's nothing we can do. Even I am in a state of panic.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by bombadillo

No, no-one expects it to "solve itself" -- not even politicians and businessmen, who are rightly in a state of panic, who have thrown any ideology out the window, and are willing to undertake actions that would have been inconceivable a yer or two back. We are passengers on a high-speed train seeing another high-speed train rushing towards us -- and there's nothing we can do. Even I am in a state of panic.

I don't really care about this crisis.

I don't care because to care would be to feel powerless -- I had nothing to do with it. It's me and people my age who will be paying the highest cost, at least that's my feeling about the matter.

We are the ones who will lie for days under the twisted wreckage, shards of glass embedded in our broken bodies -- no quick release for us.

[hermeticist]

Originally Posted by Susi

I don't really care about this crisis.

It boils down to food to eat, a roof over one's head, clothes to wear. I think in one of his essays, Orwell says the poor feel an economic system physically, in their bellies -- the system isn't some empty abstraction to them.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by bombadillo

It boils down to food to eat, a roof over one's head, clothes to wear. I think in one of his essays, Orwell says the poor feel an economic system physically, in their bellies -- the system isn't some empty abstraction to them.

Eh, I gave up on buying food. It's too expensive to eat every meal. :\

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Susi

Eh, I gave up on buying food. It's too expensive to eat every meal. :\

So do like me, eat a couple of slices of meat sporadically over the day. It gives good muscular restitution and energy, fills you, and it's not that expensive if you buy large quantities of meat at one time.

[Jacob Le Bin]

Originally Posted by Susi

Eh, I gave up on buying food. It's too expensive to eat every meal. :\

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

So do like me, eat a couple of slices of meat sporadically over the day. It gives good muscular restitution and energy, fills you, and it's not that expensive if you buy large quantities of meat at one time.

You should rediscover pasta, rice, wheat and lentils. Here meat, fish, fruits and vegetables cost an arm.

[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Savorgnan

You should rediscover pasta, rice, wheat and lentils. Here meat, fish, fruits and vegetables cost an arm.

Sure, but you can't live off that alone.

A man needs his meat. Wait .. that come out wrong

[Jacob Le Bin]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

Sure, but you can't live off that alone.

It is however the pilar of alimentation. Cereals (bread/pasta/rice/maize/wheat/etc), fruits and vegetables. We put too much value on meat. And there are other better sources of proteins and fats: fish, cheese, eggs.

A man needs his meat. Wait .. that come out wrong

I got it. If you're hungry for porn pics I can send you some, but only via PM or MSN, okay?

[Carnyx]

It's depression when Mr Xxx visits Thailand only twice a year.

[IrishThirdPosition]

Originally Posted by bombadillo

So when exactly do we move from recession into a "depression".

When you see politicians and bankers hanging in neat patterns on the sidewalk

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Savorgnan

You should rediscover pasta, rice, wheat and lentils. Here meat, fish, fruits and vegetables cost an arm.

Susu mostly eats pasta and rice.

[hermeticist]

In the Guardian:

Fears of a million layoffs a month in corporate America

As many as a million American jobs could be lost every month by next spring as businesses struggle to raise capital in financial markets consumed by fear, according to a new analysis.

November was the worst month in the US labour market since the oil crisis of 1974, as more than 500,000 US workers were laid off, according to official figures released on Friday.

But Graham Turner, of consultancy GFC Economics, says the rising cost of corporate debt is now flashing a red warning signal that far worse is to come over the next few months and job losses are heading for levels last seen in the 1930s Great Depression.

[Nifelheim]

There's something about this picture that's just astounding, 1920’s hyper-inflation depression crisis in Germany which led to the destruction of the Weimar Republic and the rise of Adolf Hitler.