Wall Street fears for next Great Depression

[Ikutiera]

Wall Street is bracing itself for another week of roller-coaster trading after more than $300bn (£150bn) was wiped off the US equity markets on Friday following the emergency funding package put together by the Federal Reserve and JPMorgan Chase to rescue Bear Stearns.
One UK economist warned that the world is now close to a 1930s-like Great Depression, while New York traders said they had never experienced such fear. The Fed's emergency funding procedure was first used in the Depression and has rarely been used since.
A Goldman Sachs trader in New York said: "Everyone is in a total state of shock, aghast at what is happening. No one wants to talk, let alone deal; we're just standing by waiting. Everyone is nervous about what is going to emerge when trading starts tomorrow."

Wall Street fears for next Great Depression - Business News, Business - Independent.co.uk

[wilpuri]

These types of news are becoming ever more frequent.

[Kernunnos]

This kind of breakdown had been forecast at least two years ago.

It is due to a situation that strongly reminds of 1929 and could be even worse, according to many good observers like Eugenio Benetazzo and Ambrose Evans Pritchard, or the web writer that goes under teh name Mogambo Guru.

[Menydh]

Of course the effects are not going to be like the 1930s Great Depression. There are many more factors to take into account this time. For Europe:

• Trade (and even production) is already highly dependable on a globalized structure.
• Industry delocalization is already at a much advanced stage.
• Agriculture, cattle farming and other food produce industries have been largely cut to force a dependance on outside countries.
• Populations in Europe are larger than in the 1930s, and heterogeneous, with a considerable share of the population being of foreign origin.
• Petrol and gas production are on a downward trend, and prices are on constant rise.

Add more, such as social and family structures being today not the solid structures that they used to be. You name it, we have it all in negative.

[gazumpiro]

America will always find itself a war to stimulate her economy. Will we in Europe follow the same path? I hope not.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by gazumpiro

America will always find itself a war to stimulate her economy. Will we in Europe follow the same path? I hope not.

It is not hundred per cent sure that this method of stimulating economy by the means of war will always be efficient.

[drgs]

100 more years till next time republicans are selected, then?

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by drgs

100 more years till next time republicans are selected, then?

As if it mattered one inch, Republicans or Democrats.

[Der]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Of course the effects are not going to be like the 1930s Great Depression. There are many more factors to take into account this time. For Europe:

• Trade (and even production) is already highly dependable on a globalized structure.
• Industry delocalization is already at a much advanced stage.
• Agriculture, cattle farming and other food produce industries have been largely cut to force a dependance on outside countries.
• Populations in Europe are larger than in the 1930s, and heterogeneous, with a considerable share of the population being of foreign origin.
• Petrol and gas production are on a downward trend, and prices are on constant rise.

Add more, such as social and family structures being today not the solid structures that they used to be. You name it, we have it all in negative.

Does this mean we are inevitably doomed?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Der

Does this mean we are inevitably doomed?

Not necessarily. It means that we may have very interesting days coming ahead.

On the positive side, it is possible that people have to move back to more traditional ways of life. This shouldn't be easy, however, because traditional societies are much lost nowadays. Countries would have to start to rely more and more on local production, for basic goods. And ethnic conflicts are likely to start at large scale. For the building of traditional societies to be, you need a very homogenous structure of people.

[Freebooter]

Anyone who is willing to take the writing on the wall for what it is knew this was coming for a while now.

You'd be surprised how many people over here are in denial. The vast majority of people either don't recognise it as a reality, or simply don't care. It will be a very, very rude awakening for these people when it does hit the fan.

I've always envisioned it being something similar to Hurricane Katrina. The result of the crash, that is. All-out chaos, lawlessness, mobs swarming the streets fighting over crumbs. It'll be amazing to watch how fast it all goes down the tube when the luxuries people have taken as necessities are no longer available.

Call me what you will, but I'm happy about this. Not just because, like Mynydd says, it may be an opportunity for traditionalism to regain its rightful place in Europe, but because it's warranted. A rotten society should only go so far before it's put out of its misery. This is long overdue.

I'm hoping we'll revert to our instincts, and people will finally see political correctness, multiculturalism and other leftist constructs for the facades they are.

[Der]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Not necessarily. It means that we may have very interesting days coming ahead.

On the positive side, it is possible that people have to move back to more traditional ways of life. This shouldn't be easy, however, because traditional societies are much lost nowadays. Countries would have to start to rely more and more on local production, for basic goods. And ethnic conflicts are likely to start at large scale. For the building of traditional societies to be, you need a very homogenous structure of people.

Yes, the only way to fight the modern world is to return to more traditional ways of life yet what worries me are those factors that you've mentioned above, especially these ones:

• Trade (and even production) is already highly dependable on a globalized structure.
• Industry delocalization is already at a much advanced stage.
• Agriculture, cattle farming and other food produce industries have been largely cut to force a dependance on outside countries.

Wouldn't these make it much harder for us to return to that traditional way of life, since at present we are totally dependent on outside countries, there is barely any local production, so hunger and the lack of basic needs should be expected during the transition years, a transition that would have not hit us very hard 30 years ago but which will become harder and harder as we move into the future.

[bombadillo]

Originally Posted by Marulus

It is not hundred per cent sure that this method of stimulating economy by the means of war will always be efficient.

The US has been on a permanent war footing since maybe 1950, and it has a thoroughly militarised economy (the "military-industrial complex"). But it's now at a stage that inefficient and wasteful military expenditures don't stimulate it anymore but drag it down further. In all commercial sectors (i.e. non-military), the US has taken a drubbing: automobiles, machine tools, television, etc. The reason for the depression in the USA will be an eviscerated manufacturing sector with an economy that has been sustaining itself with artificial and toxic financial steroids.

[Kernunnos]

Originally Posted by Vasconcelos

Anyone who is willing to take the writing on the wall for what it is knew this was coming for a while now.

You'd be surprised how many people over here are in denial. The vast majority of people either don't recognise it as a reality, or simply don't care. It will be a very, very rude awakening for these people when it does hit the fan.

I've always envisioned it being something similar to Hurricane Katrina. The result of the crash, that is. All-out chaos, lawlessness, mobs swarming the streets fighting over crumbs. It'll be amazing to watch how fast it all goes down the tube when the luxuries people have taken as necessities are no longer available.

Call me what you will, but I'm happy about this. Not just because, like Mynydd says, it may be an opportunity for traditionalism to regain its rightful place in Europe, but because it's warranted. A rotten society should only go so far before it's put out of its misery. This is long overdue.

I'm hoping we'll revert to our instincts, and people will finally see political correctness, multiculturalism and other leftist constructs for the facades they are.

I'm afraid that poverty will bring much more cannon fodder to the extreme left.

This could also lead to a fascistization of the elites, being afraid of a new communism, or, perhaps more likely given the frail intellectual defenses they have, to a disastrous compromise between such elites and the rising left, which would lead to a sovietized state of thing.

I hope you are right, tough ..

[Freebooter]

Originally Posted by Kernunnos

I'm afraid that poverty will bring much more cannon fodder to the extreme left.

This could also lead to a fascistization of the elites, being afraid of a new communism, or, perhaps more likely given the frail intellectual defenses they have, to a disastrous compromise between such elites and the rising left, which would lead to a sovietized state of thing.

I hope you are right, tough ..

In the end, I really don't think it will mean much. Maybe a few people will wake up, certainly I think many will die. But in the end, it'll go back to the way it was. I fear it's all wishful thinking to hope that anything good will come of it, long-term.

Over here, the governments of Canada, the U.S. of A and Mexico have been insidiously planning to introduce the North American version of the EU -- the North American Union. I'm sure many are aware of it on Stirpes but, surprise, surprise, there is almost no mention of it in North America. I personally don't see them abandoning a plan they've obviously spent a great deal of time materialising because of an economic crash. An economic crash that, for all we know, is being orchestrated by the social elites, no less.

I know little of economics, but I can't help but think this is all according to plan. That from the ashes of the American empire will rise a North American one that parrots the EU. And from there, well, who knows? But, the point is, I think you're right in that we have much mud to further trudge through before we start to see any legitimate improvements for Europe.

I guess this is more conspiracy theory and speculation, but I can't say I now believe that we aren't all pawns in a game of chess where the players are hidden.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Der

Yes, the only way to fight the modern world is to return to more traditional ways of life yet what worries me are those factors that you've mentioned above, especially these ones:

• Trade (and even production) is already highly dependable on a globalized structure.
• Industry delocalization is already at a much advanced stage.
• Agriculture, cattle farming and other food produce industries have been largely cut to force a dependance on outside countries.

Wouldn't these make it much harder for us to return to that traditional way of life, since at present we are totally dependent on outside countries, there is barely any local production, so hunger and the lack of basic needs should be expected during the transition years, a transition that would have not hit us very hard 30 years ago but which will become harder and harder as we move into the future.

Yes, that's correct. And the problem is much more complex than just that.

When we speak of a return to a traditional society we often neglect much of the real world that surrounds us. There is an unbalance between idealism and realism. That's how I see too Nationalism and Europeanism, in terms of idealism and realism respectively. It would be the ideal not to have to bother with those annoying neighbours, and to live in your own island of isolation. However, a reality check will soon tell you that there is a whole world in constant competition around you, and that you are a part of it whether you like it or not. Your precious ideal society can be a means to leave you with no defenses.

And so, when speaking of a wish for a return to traditional ways of life, this should not be one of those naïve volkish ideas. At every step, there must be a perfect balance between what is ideal and what is real. How much of the one can be achieved, without losing contact with the other. And vice versa.

A part of what has been destroyed can be reversed, especially under certain circumstances that force the need to reversal. Much more than what's been materially lost, I would worry with what's been spiritually lost. Because that is a lost strength much needed to start re-building.