Corruption

[Lagun]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

To be honest, it all started with some guy from Bilbao settled there who I let in charge of something, on our behalf. Over the phone it was all a mixture of promises and excuses. Then a two week stay there made me realize the trap that it was. I saw myself forced into moving there to take personally care of things. Which ended up in a three month nightmare.

So that you can make yourself a slight idea of what things were there, after three months I decided to leave the island with an iron boat which I knew that it had a rusty patch under the paint cover, at the bow near the floating line, and more rust in the tanks which were spilling the diesel into the central bilge.

I don't have a first hand experience with the other islands, only the Gran Canaria. But from the many people with who I have shared my experiences and who have been living in other islands, my impresion is that they are not that different.

I strongly disagree.

I disagree, again.

By the way, there is only one place in Spain where you are left alone only if you pay a tax to a mafia-like people, and that is in the Basque Country. That mafia-like people are the so-called Basque independentists, who are more or less protected by the Autonomous Basque government ("those boys" as Arazallus affectively calls them).

For what I read you obviously know very little about the Basque Country, the Canary Islands, and the politics in Valencia and Galicia.

[Menydh]

I admint that I don't know your version of things, if that's what you mean.

[Hweinlant]

Corruption is minor if non-existant thing in Finland. We dont even tip at restaurants.

[Menydh]

Do you consider tipping the waiter in a restaurant as corruption?

[Hweinlant]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Do you consider tipping the waiter in a restaurant as corruption?

Yes, It's bribing for better treatment @ next time.

Tipping is very good index about how corrupt country is. In US people expect tip for anything.

[Exeter]

Originally Posted by Hweinlant

Yes, It's bribing for better treatment @ next time.

Waiters earn very little otherwise.

Tipping is very good index about how corrupt country is. In US people expect tip for anything.

It's common practise also in many parts of Europe.

I found there was almost a total lack of customer service in Lithuania and Ukraine. Latvia was a bit better. Perhaps we should have bribed them.

There is a difference between bribing and tipping. You bribe someone to do something for you. You tip money to a person who has provided you with a service.

[Menydh]

Hweilant, in my opinion that's very subjective.

By tipping on a service you are recognising that it's been very well delivered. I often give a tip in places where I'm probably unlikely to return, because it is outside of my usual route. So that's hardly a bribe since the service has already been delivered to me. Most of the time it is a simple keep-the-change tip where you may add some extra coins.

Clearly, I'm not going to tip when the service has been bad. But I don't return to the place either.

One thing that I found disturbing in England, where "tips" at restaurants were included in the bill in the form of a 14-17 % (I don't remember exactly), as if this was an official charge. The English did not question this. Yet the service was awful more often than not. So I used to request that the tip was removed from the bill more often than not.

Most shocking, I found out that restaurant owners there paid a miserable money to the waiters, but they still accepted the jobs because of the tips.

[Erik P]

I don't agree that tipping is bribery, but the reason waiters earn little in some countries is that they are expected to live off tip. In Sweden, and Finland I guess, we have agreements between unions & employers regarding wages & labour conditions, so I just tip if I've gotten an extraordinary service, knowing that the staff will get reasonable pay anyway.

In bars and clubs though, I know many people give the bartender big tips to get to order faster next time.



Lately in Sweden there have been permits of residence & asylum documents etc sold from the migration ministry though. But this was because of trojan horses; immigrant employees.

[svin]

The English did not question this. Yet the service was awful more often than not. So I used to request that the tip was removed from the bill more often than not.

I don't think that it's specific English thing. That depends on the policy of specific restaurant. I think there are even similiar places in Moscow.

[svin]

Lately in Sweden there have been permits of residence & asylum documents etc sold from the migration ministry though. But this was because of trojan horses; immigrant employees.

What a "nice" idea, to have an immigrant employee at the migration ministry.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by svin

What a "nice" idea, to have an immigrant employee at the migration ministry.

Why? Don't shepherds in Russia put the wolves to watch after the cattle?

[Hweinlant]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Hweilant, in my opinion that's very subjective.

Well, it was allready explained earlier but waiters earn their money for the work they do, they make approx 1800 - 2500 €/month. They should live with it.

Tipping is only extra from something really good service or food. I personally never leave tip (in Finland).

I really find tipping discusting, especially in US where waiters are rather agressive for that, even if they do not deserve it.

If you tip waiter why not tip bureucrat for slightly faster service ? Or Police to look away ? And list goes on.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Hweinlant

Tipping is only extra from something really good service or food. I personally never leave tip (in Finland).

I really find tipping discusting, especially in US where waiters are rather agressive for that, even if they do not deserve it.

Yes, I know that they are aggressive about that in some countries. But since it is not the case here..

If you tip waiter why not tip bureucrat for slightly faster service ? Or Police to look away ? And list goes on.

In the old days the serenos (night watchers), the local policemen, the street cleaners and others were given something we call aguinaldo (not sure if Christmas box is it). It was a form of recognising their work and showing your gratefulness.

Medical Doctors too used to get presents from their patients, again as a form to show them your appretiation.

It would have never occurred to anyone that they were bribing.

[svin]

I really find tipping discusting, especially in US where waiters are rather agressive for that, even if they do not deserve it.

My friend told me that when he was in America and forgot to leave tip in the restaurant, the waiter run out of restaurant and started to shout at him.

[Hweinlant]

Originally Posted by svin

My friend told me that when he was in America and forgot to leave tip in the restaurant, the waiter run out of restaurant and started to shout at him.

It's just not in restaurants. Tipping goes throughout their society. Basicly they want you to tip for anything. I really dont like it, I want to see fixed price. I know this is a cultural thing and when in Rome..

[Menydh]

But there is a fixed price on things. The tip is something that you give because (if) you want to give it. I guess that it depends on the mentality of the society, that it is seen as a way to thank for a good service, or as a way to bribe so that the service is good the next time.

Likewise, it is

And speaking of fixed prices, one thing that I've never been able to deal with is bargaining.