Spaniards more positive about immigration

[Menydh]

The Europeans who are most positive about immigration

Financial Times
February 19, 2007

At a time when most of Europe’s major economies seem to have been afflicted by doubt and insecurity, one country stands out as more relaxed and self-confident: Spain. The economy is growing very nicely – last year’s growth in gross domestic produce was 3.8 per cent, 1.1 percentage points faster than the eurozone average. Unemployment, stubbornly high for years, has fallen to 8.3 per cent, the lowest level since 1979.

Such good fortune is reflected in opinion polls, including the latest FT/Harris poll, which shows that Spaniards are more confident of their economic future than their French, German, Italian, British and even American counterparts. They are also notably more relaxed about immigration, with no fewer than 42 per cent saying that migration by workers within the European Union has had a positive effect on their economy. That compares with only 19 per cent who think the same in Britain and France.
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Spanish companies and finance houses have shown the same sort of self-confidence in a series of raids on international rivals. Banco Santander bought Abbey National in the UK and Sovereign in the US; BBVA now ranks as the fourth largest bank in Texas, after a series of acquisitions. Ferrovial, the infrastructure group, snatched BAA, the British airports operator, to add to its portfolio of toll roads in the US and Canada. Telefonica has bought O2, the UK mobile phone company, and now talks of a stake in Telecom Italia.

One secret of Spain’s success has been its links to Latin America – an excellent testing ground for Spanish foreign investment and a useful source of Spanish-speaking immigrants.

Spain’s immigration policy has been more liberal than in most European countries, adding some 4m to the 40m population in the past decade. Those from Latin America, in particular, have proved swift to integrate. The proportion of children from mixed marriages increased from 1.8 per cent in 1995 to 11.5 per cent in 2005.

It is not all plain sailing. Although Spaniards seem to recognise the economic benefits of immigration, 71 per cent in the FT/Harris poll still wanted tighter border controls, and 59 per cent thought there were “too many foreigners” in the country. That seems to reflect fears about rising immigration from Africa.

The underlying story, however, is clear. If immigration can be shown to boost economic growth for everyone, social tensions can be managed. It is a story that political leaders in other European countries, not least the UK, should be shouting from the rooftops.


[source]

[Der]

Spanish economists more positive about immigration I would say. With regards to the average person in the street immigration is the bigest problem that needs tackling right now in Spain.

Originally Posted by Mynydd

If immigration can be shown to boost economic growth for everyone, social tensions can be managed. It is a story that political leaders in other European countries, not least the UK, should be shouting from the rooftops.

I just find that comment sick.
There is no higher level of materialsm and lack of other needed things.... than that, it just shows how ruthless they are.

[Menydh]

The Harris Polls are made over the internet, and the public that it reaches for a media like FT is selective. The opinion of the effect of immigration on the Economy is not an indicator of the general feeling of the population towards the immigration. See this survey made by Harris on November 20th, 2006, only 3 months ago, where it claims that it is France the country with more support towards immigration:

Are there too many, too few or about the right number of immigrants in your country?


Approximately what percentage of your country’s population is made up of legal immigrants?


Does your country’s policy towards immigration make it too easy or too difficult for migrants to enter the country legally, or is the policy about right?


Should your country admit migrants only if they have special skills, admit just about anyone who applies, or regulate the flow of migrants into the country based on the state of the domestic economy?


In general, have immigrants made a positive, negative or neutral impact on your country’s economy?


Have recent migrants from new EU member states in central and eastern Europe made a positive, negative or neutral impact on your country’s economy?


Do you agree or disagree with the following statement? The government of your country has immigration under control.


In the future, should the European Union play an increased, decreased or about the same role in regulating the flow of migrants to member states?


Do you regard illegal immigration as a problem for your country? Or is it not a problem?


Approximately what percentage of your country’s population is made up of illegal immigrants?


[source]

As you can see, what you are infering from the article in the Financial Times is not what you may infere from the poll results above.

When people are asked if they believe that immigration has had a positive incidence on the economy, they answer positively (39% vs 30% negatively). However, on the other polls immigration is still identified as a problem by a large sector of the population.

It is the conclusion by the FT that should be given much thought:

"If immigration can be shown to boost economic growth for everyone, social tensions can be managed. It is a story that political leaders in other European countries"

This is about right everywhere. Althought the FT gives it the simplest reading,, that ethnic conflict can be avoided under economic stability, this is like saying that ethnic conflict is pending over a very thin line.

[Gladstone]

If immigration can be shown to boost economic growth for everyone, social tensions can be managed. It is a story that political leaders in other European countries, not least the UK, should be shouting from the rooftops.

Yes, for all too many money is of too much importance. The question is all the more revealing of multi-culturalism though for which money is clearly everything.

I wonder what the response results would be if the pollsters told them the truth of immigration when asking the questions...how it is primarily for the purpose of obtaining cheap labor...and how the multi-culturalist elites who promote mass immigration see both 'immigrants' and non-immigrants alike quite literally as animals fit primarily for economic exploitation?

Expecting truth from multi-culturalism is expecting far too much though, I know.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Gladstone

Yes, for all too many money is of too much importance. The question is all the more revealing of multi-culturalism though for which money is clearly everything.

I wonder what the response results would be if the pollsters told them the truth of immigration when asking the questions...how it is primarily for the purpose of obtaining cheap labor...and how the multi-culturalist elites who promote mass immigration see both 'immigrants' and non-immigrants alike quite literally as animals fit primarily for economic exploitation?

Expecting truth from multi-culturalism is expecting far too much though, I know

Exactly, they view people, both immigrants and native Europeans, as cattle.

But isn't the whole idea of the "modern world" that humans are just one sort of animals, among others?

The very worship of economy and money is sick to its core...

People are today enslaved to the system more than ever before, but everyone speaks of "individualism" and "freedom".

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by prometheus

..But isn't the whole idea of the "modern world" that humans are just one sort of animals, among others?

And not just any animal either...something along the lines of industrial farm animals it would appear.

The very worship of economy and money is sick to its core...

Yes, it is. In this the Japanese are something of a modern light. They've refused to sell their physical peoplehood as a commodity and retaining their culture to the best of their ability, this despite being under military occupation and pressured to 'change', they've reaped rich rewards for themselves. Sure they're not perfect, no one is, but they've saved themselves a lot of grief due to their actions up to now.

People are today enslaved to the system more than ever before, but everyone speaks of "individualism" and "freedom".

Yeah, a lot of dysfunctionality all over the place it would seem.

[Menydh]

There is a quote by Daniel Defoe that I can't find, where he argues man as a commodity of a production which increases as man increases in numbers. Much in line with Weber's The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism.

[Marulus]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

There is a quote by Daniel Defoe that I can't find, where he argues man as a commodity of a production which increases as man increases in numbers. Much in line with Weber's The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism.

Weber is usually invoked by those who cherish liberal capitalism and "protestant work ethic" ie. worldview.

I read Weber recently...it seems to me he had not such a positive view of the whole phenomenon, he just described it.

I think in several places in the book he described the man shaped by this protestant capitalism in a very unflattering, almost scornful way...

Maybe I find the quotes and put them.

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by prometheus

People are today enslaved to the system more than ever before, but everyone speaks of "individualism" and "freedom".

Well, cheap labor is central to the ideology of multi-culturalism, and with huge numbers of persons (aka 'immigrants') to be imported into a country by elites to be exploited in this manner, it is not possible for a people having the misfortune to experience this to retain a stable physical peoplehood and culture, and which explains in part the emphasis on "individualism." Interchangeable people require interchangeable culture after all, and thus the development of the ideology of multi-culturalism.

The connection between cheap labor and multi-culturalism can be easily seen in articles such as this one excerpted below. Note the comments in the article about 'anti-discrimination'. This is not primarily about the 'rights' of the cheap laborer, of which the multi-cultists doesn't give a damn -otherwise they would not be exploiting these people as they are- but about stopping peoples targeted by multi-culturalism from attempting to defend themselves and thus endangering the multi-cultists' profits. Multi-culturalism easily fits into the UN definition of being genocidal, but as the UN is itself one of the biggest promoters of the cult, one should not expect any action from them anytime soon.

Multi-culturalism is driven by avarice, greed, and a general hatred for man.

Tony Laszlo says Japan needs
to embrace diversity

...The difficulty, however, comes when considering unskilled labourers, who are currently not allowed to work in Japan.

And they are just the kind of people Japan needs most as its population ages, according to Tony Laszlo, director of an anti-discrimination organisation in Tokyo.

"In 10 years, 20 years, 50 years, you have to ask yourself who is going to be finding the holes in the tunnel and patching them up so people don't die, who is going to be climbing the buildings to wash the windows, who is going to be building bridges and fixing bridges, and the answer is you don't have these people," he said.

Illegal labour could take up some of the slack. Japanese authorities say there are 250,000 illegal immigrants, the majority of whom entered the country on a temporary visa and over-stayed. Many of these people are thought to work as unskilled labourers.

But the government wants to halve that number in the next five years, and it does not appear ready to legalise unskilled foreign workers...

[Gladstone]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

There is a quote by Daniel Defoe that I can't find, where he argues man as a commodity of a production which increases as man increases in numbers...

That's remindful of the adage

"What does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his own soul?"

It's quite applicable to multi-culturalism.

[Marulus]

Max Weber on America: "Specialists without spirit, sensualists without heart; this nullity imagines that it has attained a level of civilization never before achieved."

[Gladstone]

Some might wonder just how profitable cheap labor is...for those relative few who promote it. This was actually calculated at one time (in 1863) and the results published, and it was found to be very profitable indeed.

While visiting the city of London, appropriately enough, the former United States treasurer Robert J. Walker made the calculations utilizing US census data for 1860. He compared numbers for states which used almost entirely chattel slave labor such as South Carolina, with those which had a mix of cheap and slave labor, ie Maryland, and in turn compared those states with those which used mostly cheap labor, such as Massachusetts. One has to bear in mind that for 'cheap labor' the euphamism 'free labor' ('free' as opposed to 'slave') is used as the latter sounded a lot better, and that Massachusetts at that time was the center of US industry, and indeed, where US industry got started. It is the state where very large numbers of people were 'imported' and exploited as cheap labor in the many factories there.

"By table 35 of the Census, p. 195, the whole value of the property, real and personal, of Massachusetts, in 1860, was $815, 237,433, and that of Maryland, $376,919,944. We have seen that the value of the products that year in Massachusetts was $287,000,000 (exclusive of commerce), and of Maryland, $66,000,000. As a question, then, of profit on capital, that of Massachusetts was 35 per cent, and of Maryland 17 per cent. Such is the progressive advance (more than two to one) of free as compared with slave labor. The same law obtains in comparing all the Free with all the Slave States. But the proof is still more complete. Thus, Deleware and Missouri (alone of all the Slave States) were ahead of Maryland in this rate of profit, because both had comparitively fewer slaves; and all the other Slave States, whose servile population was relatively larger than that of Maryland, were below her in the rate of profit. The law extends to counties, those having comparitively fewest slaves increasing far more rapidly in wealth and population. This, then, is the formula as to the rate of profit on capital. First, the Free States; next, the States and counties of the same State having the fewest relative number of slaves. The Census then is an evangel against slavery, and its tables are revelations proclaiming laws as divine as those written by the finger of God at Mount Sinai on the tables of stone."

The state which primarily utilized cheap 'free' labor had a four times superior rate of profitability over a state using primarily chattel slavery. The variant of slavery called cheap labor was lucrative indeed...for a very small and selfish relative few...just as with slavery. And just as with chattel slavery, cheap labor is very destructive and detrimental to most, with the latter even more so, do to the huge numbers of persons involved.

"The educated free labor of Massachusetts, we have seen, doubles the products of toil, per capita, as compared with Maryland, and quadruples them (as the Census shows) compared with South Carolina...."

Just as with chattel slavery, a person is not prepared to do the work themselves, nor pay for it, they then take on a 'cheap laborer' . Thus, while differing in form, in its essence and spirit cheap labor remains slavery, whatever they choose to call it.

The actual primary reason for the abolition of slavery. Notice what is listed first.

"Slavery, then, the Census proves, is hostile to the progress of wealth and population...."

Compare the above statement from 1863 with this marked in bold made in 2006...

From Ireland, EU hears hum of cheap labor

By Monday, Western Europe must decide whether to lift restrictions on low-wage Eastern European immigrants.

April 27, 2006

By Peter Ford | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

DUBLIN, IRELAND – A scruffy 22-year-old Pole in an oily blue T-shirt, Rafal Dambiec is an unlikely symbol of the European Union's idealistic vision of its future.
Just getting off his night shift as a gas station attendant, all he wanted to do Tuesday morning was to go to bed.

Wolfing down an Irish breakfast of sausages, buttered bread, and tea, Mr. Dambiec is a pioneer - albeit unlikely - of the cross-border get-up-and-go that EU leaders say will be key to their continent's economic dynamism and political strength....

And as for Robert J. Walker, what exactly had he been doing prior to extolling the immensely superior profitability of cheap labor verses chattel slavery. According to the US government's official biography for him...

"Moving to Mississippi to join his brother, Duncan, in a lucrative law practice, Walker became an impressive speculator in cotton, plantations, and slaves."

Of course!

Cornell University Making of America

From Ireland, EU hears hum of cheap labor | csmonitor.com

U.S. Treasury - Biography of Secretary Robert J. Walker