The Tale of Igor's Campaign

[Nestor]

It seems that numerous scholars have doubted the authenticity of the Tale of Igor's Campaign ebevn citing persons who could have forged the document.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tal...r%27s_Campaign

One of the crucial points of the controversy is the relationship between Slovo and Zadonschina, created in the 15th century to glorify Dmitri Donskoi's victory over Mamai in the Battle of Kulikovo. It is evident that there are almost identical passages in both texts where only the personal names are different. The traditional point of view considers Zadonschina to be a late imitation, with Slovo being its pattern. The forgery version claims vice versa that the Igor's Tale is written using Zadonschina as a source.

Recently, Jakobson's and Zaliznyak's analyses show that the passages of Zadonschina with counterparts in Slovo differ from the rest of the text by a number of linguistic parameters, whereas this is not so for Igor's Tale. This fact is evidence of Slovo being original with respect to Zadonschina.


If Slovo is a forgery maybe Zadonschina is as well?
Russian scholarship is well known for the various forgeries it has produced such as the Book of Vles.

[Llywarch Hen]

Lev Gumilyov has some interesting things to say about Slovo. Have you heard of this? He supposes it to be a covert critique of Moscovy's cooperation with the Tatars.

[Menydh]

Didn't Gumilyov advocate for a Eurasian multi-ethnic superstate of Russians with Kazakhs, Tatars, Mongols and other Central Asian peoples, in opposition to Europe? Surely that supposition that you speak of would suit such an agenda.

Anyway, Nestor's agenda is tiring.

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Didn't Gumilyov advocate for a Eurasian multi-ethnic superstate of Russians with Kazakhs, Tatars, Mongols and other Central Asian peoples, in opposition to Europe? Surely that supposition that you speak of would suit such an agenda.

Anyway, Nestor's agenda is tiring.

Lev Nikolaevich was indeed a Yevraziist [Eurasianist] but I don't see how his conclusions on Slovo [supposing the greatest epic of early Rus was AGAINST such a symbiosis] could further this half baked political programme.

I can't really fathom a particular Nestor agenda from this one post, he just seems to be wanting to stimulate a discussion. The old Nestor had quite an agenda, though! Very pro-Varyag!

[Menydh]

Same agenda as in all of his posts here: Russia Commemorates Kulikovo Field Victory

By the way, if he accusses Russians again of being Tatars or Mongols, I hope that he won't mind if I post the pictures of him that I've found around. Not that I will do it without his consent though..

[Austrvegr]

All forgeries have been since long exposed. No scholar has ever believed in authenticity of the Book of Veles. The Slovo is considered authentic by most scholars. If it is a forgery, its author was a man of an unbelievable genius.

[Austrvegr]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Didn't Gumilyov advocate for a Eurasian multi-ethnic superstate of Russians with Kazakhs, Tatars, Mongols and other Central Asian peoples, in opposition to Europe? Surely that supposition that you speak of would suit such an agenda.

Indeed, Lev Gumilyov was a latter-day Eurasianist. I have never liked his books. They are fiction rather than science. And they are based on ridiculous chemical-biological positivism.

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Austrvegr

Indeed, Lev Gumilyov was a latter-day Eurasianist. I have never liked his books. They are fiction rather than science. And they are based on ridiculous chemical-biological positivism.

I enjoy his style very much. I would never have learnt anything about the Stepnyaks if I hadn't been lucky enough to find his books. I have the full set upstairs. I'm reading Tysyacheletie vokrug Kaspiya as we speak!

I think it is possible to read him for the history, while taking much of his 'etnogenez' theory with a pinch of salt. He has a wonderful breadth of narration, able to cast his eye over the whole of the Eurasian landmass. I don't know about the idea of 'cosmic rays' or whatever being the tolchok [nudge? stimulus?] of the birth of a new ethnos, but I think that this only one element in his scheme. He believed he could observe a natural 'lifespan' of an ethnos [1500 years, I think], and he just needed some initial reason to spark off such a process, and so he looked to this sort of thing [it's all down to Vernadskiy, I believe]. Conservatively, I would rather see the initial burst of activity arise from clashes of compatible and incompatible peoples in peculiar geographic circumstances, but I'm willing to have an open mind.

Maybe I'm too trusting and simple, but I believe we can see his process of pod'yom [rise?], acmatic phase, nadlom [breakdown?], inertia, obscuration and so on. It makes a lot of sense to me. At least, we can say that it makes for an interesting way of looking at history, as well as our PRESENT situation. I believe I can truthfully say that I owe it to Lev Nikolaich that I can now read Russian! I tried to start with novels and other fiction, but the vocabulary was too daunting for me [and much of it was archaic too], and so I find history in the style Gumilyov writes is very pleasant to read.