Richard Pipes on Russia

[Loorberitega Pärjatu]

BTW, as Estonia has joined the Schengen system the Nashists try to come in via Finland . (For those who don't know: young Russians in WWII Red Army uniforms are wanting to expose themselves in the previous location of bronze soldier in Tallinn as living monument to Red Army). We know that Nashi is a movement supported directly by Russian government. So it has to be taken as attempt of foreign government to provoke conflicts in neighbouring country's capital. It's getting boring to speak about all kinds of economical sanctions that Russia has put on us (unofficially of course), all kinds of lies that are permanently spread in Russian Kremlin controlled media etc.

And then come people from Western Europe and become to ask: "Why don't you love them?" You should try to live with this scum which they have left here. You wine about your muslims, well, let me tell you: a Russian speaking Soviet colonist is no better at all! And unlike you we haven't invited them. I'm sure there are lots of charming persons in Russia but as a mass they tend to be imperialists and chauvinists. We have done everything we can to find compromises but there are borders that we won't cross. There won't be any second official language or things like that they want us to have. If we hate it is because we are hated! Even those Estonians who were very positive about Russians before April 2007 are now thinking with some disgust about them. Yes, that's the word, not hatred. But that was the aim, I guess.

[zemelmete]

Originally Posted by Loorberitega Pärjatu

BTW, as Estonia has joined the Schengen system the Nashists try to come in via Finland . (For those who don't know: young Russians in WWII Red Army uniforms are wanting to expose themselves in the previous location of bronze soldier in Tallinn as living monument to Red Army). We know that Nashi is a movement supported directly by Russian government. So it has to be taken as attempt of foreign government to provoke conflicts in neighbouring country's capital. It's getting boring to speak about all kinds of economical sanctions that Russia has put on us (unofficially of course), all kinds of lies that are permanently spread in Russian Kremlin controlled media etc.

And then come people from Western Europe and become to ask: "Why don't you love them?" You should try to live with this scum which they have left here. You wine about your muslims, well, let me tell you: a Russian speaking Soviet colonist is no better at all! And unlike you we haven't invited them. I'm sure there are lots of charming persons in Russia but as a mass they tend to be imperialists and chauvinists. We have done everything we can to find compromises but there are borders that we won't cross. There won't be any second official language or things like that they want us to have. If we hate it is because we are hated! Even those Estonians who were very positive about Russians before April 2007 are now thinking with some disgust about them. Yes, that's the word, not hatred. But that was the aim, I guess.

Yep, I don't know if to laugh or to cry about those russians in our countries. For better understanding - those russians in Baltic states consist mainly of gopniks/gopota, what is about the same thing as brittish chavs. The funniest thing is that brittish chavs can always be legally brought to trial in every time, but russian gopniks can't, because otherwise Moscow screams about "oppression of russian-speaking people" LOL


BTW the biggest part of russian demonstrants in Tallinn were exactly gopniks (see clothing style - boots, training trousers, short hair-cuts etc.)

[Menydh]

@ the Fenno-Baltic lot:

this a forum [section] for East Slavic people. Your participation here is subject to what would be expected from any guest, in a civilized environment.

Also, no-one has told anyone of you to "love" Russians, or to love anyone else for that matter.

We have a share of Baltic gangs engaged in crimes here, especially in the area of Murcia and Almeria, yet you haven't seen any Spaniard using it as an excuse to indulge in continuous bashings of Fenno-Baltics.

I hope that you can see the difference.

[Loorberitega Pärjatu]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

@ the Fenno-Baltic lot:


We have a share of Baltic gangs engaged in crimes here, especially in the area of Murcia and Almeria, yet you haven't seen any Spaniard using it as an excuse to indulge in continuous bashings of Fenno-Baltics.

I hope that you can see the difference.

And it's just fine that we must be quiet when total lies are published in Russian media continuously.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by Loorberitega Pärjatu

And it's just fine that we must be quiet when total lies are published in Russian media continuously.

Who ever said that? In this forum you are free to debunk all of the lies of the Russian media, if and when there are such. Go ahead and debunk them.

When someone writes bullshit about Croatia or posts articles that contain nonsense about Croatia, I usually react and expound my counter-arguments, debunk lies and misineterpretations etc. Nobody ever said that you cannot do the same.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by zemelmete

Yep, I don't know if to laugh or to cry about those russians in our countries. For better understanding - those russians in Baltic states consist mainly of gopniks/gopota, what is about the same thing as brittish chavs. The funniest thing is that brittish chavs can always be legally brought to trial in every time, but russian gopniks can't, because otherwise Moscow screams about "oppression of russian-speaking people" LOL


BTW the biggest part of russian demonstrants in Tallinn were exactly gopniks (see clothing style - boots, training trousers, short hair-cuts etc.)

Can someone explain to what the term gopnik exactly means and what is the origin of such a designation? Does it solely refer to a "youth subculture" (like yob and chav) or has some wider implications?

[Khozinsky]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Can someone explain to what the term gopnik exactly means and what is the origin of such a designation? Does it solely refer to a "youth subculture" (like yob and chav) or has some wider implications?

It's not a subculture, I'd say. It's just youth belonging to the lowest social class.

In 1920 in St.Petersburg Bolshevik government organized an accomodation community for the poorest orphan children. It was called "Gorodskoye Obshezhitiye Proletariata" - GOP (City Proletary Hostel or something like this - I hope someone will give a right translation). Those orphans, street hooligans were called gopniks.

Nowadays gopniks are young men from the lowest social class, poor and not educated, tending to commiting crimes. They do not form any special subculture.

[Gottslav]

The way I understand it, it doesn't have anything to do with youth subculture, but rather with lack thereof. Actually, it stands for complete lack of culture. The word is roughly the equivalent of term white trash. There might be other opinions there, but I think everyone will agree that gopniks are backwards rogues with lack of basic notions of what culture stands for.

[wilpuri]

Originally Posted by Gottslav

The way I understand it, it doesn't have anything to do with youth subculture, but rather with lack thereof. Actually, it stands for complete lack of culture. The word is roughly the equivalent of term white trash. There might be other opinions there, but I think everyone will agree that gopniks are backwards rogues with lack of basic notions of what culture stands for.

Basically the post-Marxist lumpenproletariat, then.