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Old Saturday, April 12th, 2008
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Default Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

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Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

John Hooper in Rome
Saturday April 12, 2008
The Guardian


The seemingly far-fetched theory that Leonardo da Vinci was of Arab descent has been given new backing in a study, published this week, that suggests his mother was a slave.

It is known that Da Vinci's parents were not married and that his father was a Florentine notary, Ser Piero. In a tax record dating from 1457, five years after the Italian polymath's birth, his mother is described as one Caterina, who by then was married to a man from the Tuscan town of Vinci. It was assumed she was a local woman. But, according to Francesco Cianchi, the author of the study, "There is no Caterina in Vinci or nearby villages who can be linked to Ser Piero. The only Caterina in Piero's life seems to be a slave girl who lived in the house of his wealthy friend, Vanni di Niccolo di Ser Vann."

In his will, the Florentine banker left Caterina to his wife. But on his death in 1451, his house went to his friend and executor, Ser Piero.


The fact that the banker's widow continued to live in the house, soon hiring a new servant, forms the basis for the theory that Ser Piero allowed her to stay in return for freeing Caterina. The slave woman disappears from the Florence records thereafter.

On April 15 1452, Da Vinci was born in Vinci. A few months later, his mother married one Acchattabriga di Piero del Vaccha.

The study casts light on slavery in Renaissance Italy. At the research's launch, Alessandro Vezzosi, a Da Vinci scholar and founder of the Museo Ideale at Vinci, said: "A lot of well-to-do and prominent families bought women from eastern Europe and the Middle East. The young girls were then baptised. The most common names were Maria, Marta - and Caterina."
Last year, a study by an Italian academic of a fingerprint left by Da Vinci found that it included a configuration normally only found among Arabs.
[source]
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Old Saturday, April 12th, 2008
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

Sure, for another she was jew, previous ones had a germanic Leonardo ... curiously such "discoveries" correspond to the political fad of the moment.

Now it is the moment to show that progress came from race-mixing ... as the slave is given in the italian press, obviously, as middle eastern in origin (being she slavic is called possible but unlikely "given the shape of Leonardo's thumb, that results of arabic type").

As you can see, as the political mood shifts Leonardo changes from germanic to arab or jewish, with all the due evidence ...
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Old Saturday, April 12th, 2008
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

Pseudo-"science"! Concluding on somebody's ethnic affiliation based on the thumb-print, I don't know how to call it.
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

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Pseudo-"science"! Concluding on somebody's ethnic affiliation based on the thumb-print, I don't know how to call it.
The second option is that she could be one of your kin Marulus, as many servants would come instead from slavic countries (most of them actually in venetian areas ....): but this would not be useful at all, since it would make a full european of Leonardo.... what horror.
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Old Saturday, April 12th, 2008
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

You'll see, the Afrocentrists will, sooner or later, also claim Da Vinci. If not already done.
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

I do not have at hand my copy of Coon's "living races of men" but if I remeber quite well, the most common dermatoglyphic paterns among arabs, was present at about 27% in Italian population; I don't remember the gigures very well but I know the percentage of the said pattern among italian was high enough to blow in a sneeze this stupidistic theory
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

This Spanish article on the same subject is more objective and less enthusiast about the hasty conclusions:

Translation of the part I quoted in BOLD
"this typology of fingerprints is applicabe in 60 % of cases to the arabic population hence suggest that his mother would come from the middle east" says Capasso. Other scientists discard this ideas and ensure that the curves of the finger tip cannot in absolute predict the race of an individual


La huella (dactilar) de un genio
11.12.2006 | Categoría: Divulgación | Elena Sanz
Tags:
forense, biometría, historia
Un equipo de antropólogos italianos ha conseguido recientemente reconstruir la huella digital del dedo índice de la mano izquierda del mítico Leonardo da Vinci, según hemos leído en Live Science. La reconstrucción se ha realizado a partir de fotografías de 200 huellas dactilares – la mayoría parciales – extraídas de 52 documentos manejados por Leonardo a lo largo de su vida. Los autores del estudio aseguran que no sólo podría ayudar a confirmar la autoría de ciertas pinturas y manuscritos que se atribuyen al científico y artista italiano, sino que también podría darnos detalles sobre lo que comía (dice Luiggi Capasso, uno de los autores, que Leonardo acostumbraba a comer mientras trabajaba). Incluso se plantean usar la huella para indagar acerca de sus orígenes. “La tipología de estas huellas es aplicable en un 60% de los casos a la población Arábica, lo que sugiere que es posible que su madre procediera de Oriente Medio”, dice Capasso. Otros científicos discrepan de estas ideas, y aseguran que los surcos de la yema de los dedos no pueden en absoluto predecir la raza de una persona. En cualquier caso, todos coinciden en que esta huella nos acerca un poco más al genio renacentista.
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Old Sunday, April 13th, 2008
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

I exposed this matter to my friend Maike Vorgt Luerssen who is historian, specialized in Middle ages and early modern history, I quote bellow her reply:

Quote:
it is very difficult to say whether this new theory is right or wrong.
It is possible. We know that especially in Florence a lot of rich men
had bought female slaves from Russia and other parts of the world. A
big
market for selling beautiful female slaves was in Venice. It is
possible.

Alex, I will meet Professor Vezzosi in November 2008 and I will speak
with him about this matter. And then I write to you.
If Leonardo's mother was a slave, it is most possible that she was from eastern Europe.
Anyway we will probably could have an alternative answer in November.
I'll look forward to her reply

Last edited by Menydh; Sunday, April 13th, 2008 at 18:22. Reason: [unquote] ??? You have a thing with bbcode!!! :P
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Old Monday, April 14th, 2008
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Default The finger print of Leonardo probably debunked?

Here, another comment received from Historian Maike Vorgt Luerssen:


I have my doubts with the fingerprint. Leonardo da Vinci had a workshop

with assistants and students, who copied his style of painting.
Therefore we can not say that the fingerprint is 100% from
Leonardo da
Vinci. And I doubt that a fingerprint can give you the information that

he was an Arab oder the child of an Arab. Therefore I will write to our

Police Apartment Forensic Science and to our University Forensic
Science
and ask them personally if this is true.

I will come back to you!!!


Rgds
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Old Thursday, April 17th, 2008
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

I've read something similar some years ago

Accidently, I found this video this morning, about true face of Leonardo
TED | Talks | Siegfried Woldhek: The true face of Leonardo Da Vinci? (video)
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Old Friday, April 18th, 2008
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

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I've read something similar some years ago

Accidently, I found this video this morning, about true face of Leonardo
TED | Talks | Siegfried Woldhek: The true face of Leonardo Da Vinci? (video)
Very interesting work.
Mrs Luerssen has nother theory also and believes she had identified an early self-portrait of Leonardo; I published a thread long ago about that subject.
Here is the direct link about Leonardo's possible self-Portrait.

New Portrait of Leonardo da Vinci

Her work is very interesting also and I think matchs quite well with Siegfried Woldhek
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Old Friday, April 18th, 2008
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Default Re: The finger print of Leonardo probably debunked?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth-Finder View Post
Here, another comment received from Historian Maike Vorgt Luerssen:
.

I have my doubts with the fingerprint. Leonardo da Vinci had a workshop

...
And I doubt that a fingerprint can give you the information that

he was an Arab oder the child of an Arab. Therefore I will write to our

Police Apartment Forensic Science and to our University Forensic
Science
and ask them personally if this is true.

I will come back to you!!!

Rgds
As a matter of fact, This Mrs Luerssen has forwarded me the reply from the above named reply from the University Forensic Science dpmt:

I saw the article as well and was a bit baffled by the statement. I know of no work done which would allow racial identifications to be made using fingerprints. There is some racial profiling done in the States using DNA analysis, but even that tends to be indicative or it is reported as a probability of some kind that a person is afro-american, caucasian and so on.
However, I'm not a fingerprint expert, and it may be that recent work has been done around this topic.

Dr Douglas Elliot
Science Leader Director
Service Centre Forensic Science Programme
ESR University of Auckland
Auckland Auckland
NZ NZ
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Old Friday, April 18th, 2008
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

Taking into account that some parts of Italy had an important influence from the Neolithic farmers, that curiously came from the Middle East, it is an absurd to claim that a fingerprint (can it really show ethnic affiliation???) shows an Arab origin.

Especially in the case of Tuscany and the alleged Anatolian origin of the Etruscans, who had an important genetic impact on the pre-Neolithic local population.
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

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Originally Posted by Galaico View Post
Taking into account that some parts of Italy had an important influence from the Neolithic farmers, that curiously came from the Middle East, it is an absurd to claim that a fingerprint (can it really show ethnic affiliation???) shows an Arab origin.

Especially in the case of Tuscany and the alleged Anatolian origin of the Etruscans, who had an important genetic impact on the pre-Neolithic local population.
Well said and moreover, if I remember well the quick looks I had to the works of Boyd (through Coon's quotes in Living races of Man) I do not think there is any population whose dermatoglyphic patterns are so homogenous that 60% of individuals would display similar kind of fingerprint, as this "study" seems to claim -As the article says that such kind of fingerprint correspond in 60% of cases to arbas, it would imply that 60% of arabs have a very similar dermatoglyphic pattern, no?
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Default Re: Da Vinci's mother was a slave, Italian study claims

And here I quote a last mssg trnasfred to me regarding this matter:

[quote]
In response to your query regarding the pattern type of Leonardo Da Vinci as being of a type normally found only amongst Arabs.

To my knowledge no pattern type exists that can be designated as belonging to a particular racial group. Certain (pure) racial types may have a greater trend towards certain pattern typing than other races, example, Caucasian - loops, Negroes (continental Africa) – whorls, Asians – arches, but this is only as a generalization as Pygmies and Bushmen (continental Africa) have as high a rate of arch type patterns as whorl. Also, there is no real dominance as to pattern typing with the mix of racial types.

Pattern type is formed from the shape and progression of growth of the volar pads during foetal development, although this will have influence from genetics there are also many other factors that can influence pattern typing of an individual.

If you wish to read more on racial variation of fingerprint patterns I would suggest to you “Finger Prints Palms And Soles an Introduction to Dermatoglyphics” by Harold Cummins and Charles Midlo.

So in short a single fingerprint would not tell you if a person were an Arab or of Arabic ancestry.

I trust this is of some assistance.


Brevet Sergeant John ClementsTraining Coordinator Fingerprint Bureau
Forensic Services Branch (144)South Australia PoliceForensic Science Centre, Divett Place
ADELAIDE SA 5000T 08 8463 7785 F 08 8463 7774 M 0417 855 466E john.clements@police.sa.gov.au
Wwww.police.sa.gov.auSOUTH AUSTRALIA POLICEKEEPING SA SAFE
.[UNQUOTE]
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