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[Galmudug]

I have been analyzing the evidence again of ancient Somalis and it all came together for me, the genetic evidence, the references by ancient Arab and Greek writers, and even the Qu’ranic story of the sons of Noah. African Somalis are a long lost branch of the proto-Berbers, known to the Egyptians as the Phutites. Genetics has shown that the ancestor to the African bloodlines of Afars, Somalis, Oromos, Hadiyas, Sidamos, Beja and Afar split off from the ancestor of the Berber people in the upper Nile in present day Sudan many thousands of years ago, some time before the founding of Egyptian civilization. Egyptian chronicles refer to the people south of Egypt as Libyans and Phutites, while people much farther south as the Ethiopians (likely Nilotic or Bantu people, not proto-Habesha). Some time after the early Egyptian kingdom, a Nilotic people from the Darfur, Kordofan and Chad region moved into the Upper Nile and took over, and the Cushite tribes there gradually shrank and lost importance except along the Red Sea, where the Beja people still dominate, but there are still a diverse and ancient Cushite peoples as far west as the Nuba mountains.
The reason why however, is likely due to the fact that the Cushites had discovered much greener (literally) pastures further south, and the Nilotic takeover of Sudan was probably more of a mix of the Nilotes taking over and the Cushites leaving Sudan and the Nilotes just moving in and filling a vacuum.
The highlands of Ethiopia are very inviting and can support a great number of people, both pastoralists and agriculturalists, and both Semitic proto-Habesha and Cushite peoples moved into the highlands en-masse from ancient times. From there the pastoralists fanned out across the whole of the horn of Africa by 1 C.E., while the agriculturalists were largely confined to the highlands.
Greeks and Arabs always referred to these pastoralist Cushites as Berbers, and this name has stuck with Berbera, which is the Arabian name for the Berber people. I have gone through many records and I can find no mention at all of Greek chroniclers and historians referring to anyone else as Berbers other than the Berbers themselves and these pastoralists. The reason of course is that the Berbers of north Africa have, over centuries of slave importing (and raiding) in Europe (as far as Ireland) and the Caucasus and having been invaded by lighter skinned Arab peoples, become significantly more European/Arab looking, while the Somalis have largely remained Cushite in appearance, but this was likely simply not the case in the ancient world. The ancient Somalis were likely identifiably Berber. The Tuareg for instance look so different from northern Berbers that they were categorized differently by racist colonial authorities based on their skin tone, but Tuareg actually look remarkably Somali, as Tuareg are famous for their xenophobia and insularity they have remained largely ethnically unchanged for millenia, and are something of a snapshot into the past.
There is also the name the Land of Punt. The actual Egyptian word is Poenet, which is the exact same name as the tribe named Poenet that referred to one of the Libyan (and Phonecian!) tribes that lived near Egypt. Egyptologists have simply refused to put two and two together because, quite likely, they just can’t accept “Libyans” living in the horn of Africa, so it must be some mistake they figure. A similar name (exactly the same actually) a coincidence.
There are simply too many coincidences. Four civilizations insisting the people in the horn of Africa are Berbers (Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Egyptians), the genetic evidence (branch of the pan-Berber E1b1 haplogroup) even the language (both are Afro-Asiatic). Finally there is the fact that Beja (likely the senior branch of the Cushite family) ancient Egyptian and Berber are all quite similar languages, and branched off from each other only in pre-Dynastic

Is there not a slight resemblance between the Somalis and Taurag's.

Taurag's




Somalis

[Carnyx]

I have gone through many records and I can find no mention at all of Greek chroniclers and historians referring to anyone else as Berbers other than the Berbers themselves and these pastoralists. The reason of course is that the Berbers of north Africa have, over centuries of slave importing (and raiding) in Europe (as far as Ireland) and the Caucasus and having been invaded by lighter skinned Arab peoples, become significantly more European/Arab looking, while the Somalis have largely remained Cushite in appearance, but this was likely simply not the case in the ancient world. The ancient Somalis were likely identifiably Berber. The Tuareg for instance look so different from northern Berbers that they were categorized differently by racist colonial authorities based on their skin tone, but Tuareg actually look remarkably Somali, as Tuareg are famous for their xenophobia and insularity they have remained largely ethnically unchanged for millenia, and are something of a snapshot into the past.

Will you show us anthropological studies to support your afrocentrist claims?

[Galmudug]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Will you show us anthropological studies to support your afrocentrist claims?

Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza touchs upon this subject, in his book The History and Geography of Human Genes published in 1994. Cavalli-Sforza suggested that the East African genetic cluster consisted of Beja (Cushites) and Tuareg's.

Source: Cavalli-Sforza, L. Luca; Menozzi, Paolo; and Piazza Alberto The History and Geography of Human Genes Princeton, New Jersey: 1994 Princeton University Press Page 169 See Figure 3.5.1 Genetic Tree of 49 African populations.

[Menydh]

The reason of course is that the Berbers of north Africa have, over centuries of slave importing (and raiding) in Europe (as far as Ireland) and the Caucasus and having been invaded by lighter skinned Arab peoples, become significantly more European/Arab looking

This alone qualifies this thread (and probably others by him too) for the Freakwatch! forum.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Galmudug

Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza touchs upon this subject, in his book The History and Geography of Human Genes published in 1994. Cavalli-Sforza suggested that the East African genetic cluster consisted of Beja (Cushites) and Tuareg's.

Source: Cavalli-Sforza, L. Luca; Menozzi, Paolo; and Piazza Alberto The History and Geography of Human Genes Princeton, New Jersey: 1994 Princeton University Press Page 169 See Figure 3.5.1 Genetic Tree of 49 African populations.

Yes and? How does it prove ancient Berbers were Cushites?

[Galmudug]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Yes and? How does it prove ancient Berbers were Cushites?

I never said that the Berbers were Cushites, I said that one of the long lost branches of the proto-Berbers is Cushite, known to the Egyptians as the Phutites.

What your failing to grasp is that Luigi Cavalli-Sforza from he's own work concluded a strong relationship both genetically and linguistically between the Beja's (Cushites) and the Tuareg's.

Menydh we can both agree to disagree.

[Carnyx]

Originally Posted by Galmudug

I never said that the Berbers were Cushites, I said that one of the long lost branches of the proto-Berbers is Cushite, known to the Egyptians as the Phutites.

If you read well, you will notice I specified ancient Berbers.

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Yes and? How does it prove ancient Berbers were Cushites?

But whatever. I understand you're trying to say the Berber civilization is related to your people and probably through the Berbers, the Egyptians'. It is just a fallacy.

What your failing to grasp is that Luigi Cavalli-Sforza from he's own work concluded a strong relationship both genetically and linguistically between the Beja's (Cushites) and the Tuareg's.

Not really. What I'm failing to grasp is how the Tuareg and "Cushite" DNA relation proves the so-called long lost proto-Berber branch is related to your Cushites.

It probably didn't occur to you that the Tuaregs only borrowed the Berber language?

Menydh we can both agree to disagree.

I can too, I guess it won't make proto-Berbers Negroids for that.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

Not really. What I'm failing to grasp is how the Tuareg and "Cushite" DNA relation proves the so-called long lost proto-Berber branch is related to your Cushites.

It probably didn't occur to you that the Tuaregs only borrowed the Berber language?

I can too, I guess it won't make proto-Berbers Negroids for that.

The Tuareg are of largely West African admixture. The Amazigh element is weak.

To show any link with the Berbers he would have to do it through the Riffian and Kabyle from Morocco and Algeria respectively.

[Savorgnan]

Originally Posted by Carnyx

How does it prove ancient Berbers were Cushites?

I wasn't aware of such claim of genetic proximity.

But now I remember that the linguist Alfredo Trombetti already stated an affinity between Cushitic and some pre-Arabic North African languages.

[Galmudug]

Human history has always been from one migration to another, mankind has always been on the move. That is exactly what the Cushites have been doing for the last several thousand years, moving from one region to another.

I never said that Berbers were Cushites, although i do agree with Menydh regarding the Tuareg having high west African Admixture.

However the Kabyle Berbers i find very interesting, since they are indigenous North Africans who surprisingly have higher Haplogroup E1b1b than most of the Cushite ethnic groups within the Horn (they have 58% E1b1b -- more than most Ethiopian groups).

This becomes strange since M215 (E1b1b) and M35 (E1b1b1) are believed to have first appeared in the Horn of Africa approximately 26,000 years ago amongst populations that already had lineages with the mutations P2.