Call for Jews to stop calling Jesus a bastard

[Aptrgangr]

Call for Jews to stop calling Jesus a bastard

By Ben Martin

Last Updated: 12:14am BST 06/10/2007

A senior American cardinal has asked Jews to reconsider descriptions of Jesus as a "bastard" in exchange for a softening of traditional Catholic prayers calling for Jews to be converted to Christianity.

Damien Thompson: Holy smoke

The controversial comments, by Cardinal Francis George of the Archdiocese of Chicago, concern a prayer said during Easter celebrations by the small number of parishes or priests who celebrate a particular form of Good Friday mass.

Those version of Good Friday prayers calls for the congregation to pray for Jews to be converted to Christianity.
But Cardinal George said this prayer should be amended to ensure it did not offend Jews.

"I suspect (the amendment) probably will be (made), because the intention is to be sure that our prayers are not offensive to the Jewish people who are our ancestors in the faith," Cardinal George said in an interview with the National Catholic Reporter.
"We can't possibly insult them in our liturgy … not that any group has a veto on anybody's prayers, because you can go through Jewish texts and find material that is offensive to us. But if we're interested in keeping the dialogue strong, and we have to be, we should be very cautious about any prayer that they find insulting."
But this should mean that Jews, in turn, consider amending their own religious texts, he said.

"It does work both ways. Maybe this is an opening to say, 'Would you care to look at some of the Talmudic literature's description of Jesus as a bastard, and so on, and maybe make a few changes in some of that?'"

Call for Jews to stop calling Jesus a bastard - Telegraph

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28 April 2007: Latin Mass may offend Jews
26 February 2004: Why the Jews cannot be blamed for Jesus\'s death
17 August 2002: Catholic U-turn on conversion of Jews divides America\'s Christians

[Menydh]

This Ecumenically Correct bishop.. whoever thought that ordaining Americans would be right!

[Marulus]

Preposterous. As if he were merchant and not a Cardinal.

[Errigal]

I read his statement a little differently. He is being too clever but I think what he is saying to the Jewish community is that if they think they can demand changes in Catholic liturgy then the Catholics can demand the same from them. In other words, back off unless you want the Catholic Church to start getting into your internal Jewish affairs.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Errigal

I read his statement a little differently. He is being too clever but I think what he is saying to the Jewish community is that if they think they can demand changes in Catholic liturgy then the Catholics can demand the same from them. In other words, back off unless you want the Catholic Church to start getting into your internal Jewish affairs.

Yes, I suspected it might actually be a clever dig.
Most people probably are not aware at how Judaism traditionally views Christianity. Now, more people do. What lends some credence to this theory is that the prayers for the conversion of the Jews were largely done away with in the Novus Ordo after Vatican II anyway. So he's basically saying we'll do away with something which we already more or less have done anyway, and then gets across the point that Jews have a decidedly intolerant tradition themselves.

Then again, we are discussing the notorious American clergy...

[Menydh]

From what little I've read about him, he seems to swim in between to seas.

I'd propose that only Irish clergymen be anointed for the hierarchy of the Church in North America.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

From what little I've read about him, he seems to swim in between to seas.

I'd propose that only Irish clergymen be anointed for the hierarchy of the Church in North America.

I would second that proposal. No question the Irish and French-Canadians were the pillars of the Church in the Northeast of the US.

[Sergius]

Jews can say what they want. Doesn't bother me.

[kimm]

Originally Posted by Ljubomir

Jews can say what they want. Doesn't bother me.

I'd say the same. If we could say what we wanted about them.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by kimm

I'd say the same. If we could say what we wanted about them.

That's what's not fair. Think of how our cultures and religion are presented just in Hollywood films alone while people can be fined or sent to prison for saying such things about the Jewish religion and culture. Imagine a movie like the Da Vinci Code except the secret international conspiracy is Jewish rather than Christian. If it were somehow made in Iran, or somewhere similar, it would never make it to a screen in many European states.

[AnfangerUS]

I love how the Catholic Church is supposed to bow down to the complaints of the Jews for one verse on one day of the year calling for their conversion. Isn't every religion supposed to believe in the rightousness of their cause. The Church is not calling them wicked or for their death (we let the Muslims hold that tenent). It is amazing how the Church comes under attack from progressives and Jews for trying to return to a more "Catholic" Roman Catholic Church. It is this Tridentine Latin Mass that makes the Church truly universal. Shame on the non-Catholics and Jews for trying to dictate the norms of the Catholic Church. Don't worry we'll pray for your conversion.

[Errigal]

In all honesty I don't hope (let alone pray) for the conversion of the Jews to Christianity. Unfortunately I don't think many of them can make that promise with any kind of sincerity; there has been too much bad history between our two religions. The most we could all hope is they learn to be good citizens of whatever state they happen to inhabit. That itself would be a monumental accomplishment.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Errigal

In all honesty I don't hope (let alone pray) for the conversion of the Jews to Christianity. Unfortunately I don't think many of them can make that promise with any kind of sincerity

We don't lack historical examples of this. What the Inquisition in Spain had to deal with was with the problem of the false convert Marranos, crypto-judaism and judaisation. Not in vain it was said that "there is no worse Jew than the converse".

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by AnfangerUS

It is this Tridentine Latin Mass that makes the Church truly universal. Shame on the non-Catholics and Jews for trying to dictate the norms of the Catholic Church. Don't worry we'll pray for your conversion.

I've been noticing a trend on American Catholics, where their catholicism approaches a mixture of American "christian identity" and wrongly understood traditional catholicism.

This North American, but also some South American.