Lutheranist shot at Catholicism

[Tennyson]

This thread is devoted to Lutheran apologetics. I especially explore Catholic universalism.

Already in Medieval times the Church elevated Negroes to sainthood. The person depicted in the statue is St. Maurice, the patron saint of the Holy Roman Emperors.


The Cathedral of Magdeburg, 1240.

Moses the Black (d. 405) and Benedict the Black (canonized 1807) are examples of other Negro saints. Even if we discount other arguments against saint cults it is absurd to venerate dead Negroes as saints!

The Catholic Church has been in a steady decline since the papal bull Sublimus Dei promulgated by Pope Paul III in 1537 affirmed the universalist doctrine of racial equality.

Meanwhile the German Protestants made fun of the Negro in Magdeburg the Pope told them to worship.

Today, the Catholic Church is a major force pushing for open borders.
In 1992, the Church even published a new catechism which says that "mistreatment of immigrants" is a sin!

Then

Cardinal Renato Martino says US plan to build fence along Mexican border is inhumane, speech in Rome presenting papal message for Roman Catholic Church's World Day of Migrants and Refugees; lauds Mexican and US bishops who oppose plan; also says much remains to be done to integrate Muslim immigrants into Europe

"Vatican Decries Fence Planned For U.S. Border", New York Times, November 15, 2006.

Granted, most European Protestant churches are also very liberal. However, few Protestants care of their opinions and they are not binding. Protestants have a freedom to disagree with the Church but the Pope is infallible.


Jews and the Catholic Church. Although I am not an anti-Semite (in the Hitlerian sense) the Catholic Church has some really dubious theological views of Judaism.

The Church claims that the Jewish religious practice is actually valid and they don't need even need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved!

The U. S. Bishops Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious affairs: "Evangelizing task no longer includes the wish to absorb the Jewish faith into Christianity and so end the distinctive witness of Jews to God in human history. Thus, while the Catholic Church regards the saving act of Christ as central to the process of human salvation for all, it also believes that Jews already dwell in a saving covenant with God."

That view is a simple heresy. There is no salvation for perfidious Jews.

Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." (John 14:6)
"And this is life everlasting that they know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou hast sent." (John 17.3), "
"And there is not salvation in any other. For neither is there any other name under heaven given to men, wherein we must be saved." (Acts 4.12)

And what about the Protestants? Extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I proudly declare that I knowingly and deliberately reject the Catholic Church. Thus, according to the Church I will not be saved.

However, the possibility of salvation is open to Jews and ignorant savages who have never understood the Catholic faith.

("Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 16).)

Lutherans believe, correctly, that the superstitions of savages or Muslims cannot lead to salvation. Also, all other Christians will be saved.

[3rdEye]

Originally Posted by Tennyson

This thread is devoted to Lutheran apologetics.

"Lutheran Apologetics" might be a more suitable title of such a topic?

Or "Protestant views of Catholicism".

I am quite serious, and I would appreciate an answer to the question. I don't think that the title reflects the content.

[Gavril]

When I look at it, I don't see Lutheranism vs. Catholicism, I see Lutheranism and Catholicism.

[Marcus Marulus]

I can't recall anyone denigrating Lutheranism as such on this board.

[Milesian]

The initial post is teeming with errors, inaccuracies and fallacies.
It will take time to address them all but I will make a point of doings so over the weekend.

[Gavril]

Originally Posted by Tennyson

This thread is devoted to Lutheran apologetics. I especially explore Catholic universalism. In the Islam thread, and many other instances prior to that.

The Catholic Church has been in a steady decline since the papal bull Sublimus Dei promulgated by Pope Paul III in 1537 affirmed the universalist doctrine of racial equality.

Nonetheless, you are the only one here advocating Universalism.

Originally Posted by Tennyson

Today, the Catholic Church is a major force pushing for open borders.
In 1992, the Church even published a new catechism which says that "mistreatment of immigrants" is a sin!

Where is the Catholic Church pushing for open borders? I think you are forgetting that the real Universalist thinking is that of the free-global-market capitalists, spreading from Protestant countries to Catholic ones. If the Church today is pushing for open borders and Liberalism, it is because it has been tainted.

[Tennyson]

Originally Posted by Plethon

I can't recall anyone denigrating Lutheranism as such on this board.

Hmm...

Evangelicals and Jews

Some American Evangelical Churches are Lutheran. They are also real Lutheran churches doctrinally unlike the state churches of e.g. Finland and Sweden.

[Tennyson]

Originally Posted by Seekers

"Lutheran Apologetics" might be a more suitable title of such a topic?

Or "Protestant views of Catholicism".

I am quite serious, and I would appreciate an answer to the question. I don't think that the title reflects the content.

Hmm... maybe. I just wanted to offer my point of view which is certainly controversial.

[3rdEye]

Originally Posted by Tennyson

Hmm... maybe. I just wanted to offer my point of view which is certainly controversial.

OK. Let's see what becomes of it.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Tennyson

This thread is devoted to Lutheran apologetics. I especially explore Catholic universalism.

Already in Medieval times the Church elevated Negroes to sainthood. The person depicted in the statue is St. Maurice, the patron saint of the Holy Roman Emperors.

The Cathedral of Magdeburg, 1240.

Moses the Black (d. 405) and Benedict the Black (canonized 1807) are examples of other Negro saints. Even if we discount other arguments against saint cults it is absurd to venerate dead Negroes as saints!

The Catholic Church has been in a steady decline since the papal bull Sublimus Dei promulgated by Pope Paul III in 1537 affirmed the universalist doctrine of racial equality.

Meanwhile the German Protestants made fun of the Negro in Magdeburg the Pope told them to worship.

Today, the Catholic Church is a major force pushing for open borders.
In 1992, the Church even published a new catechism which says that "mistreatment of immigrants" is a sin!

Then

Granted, most European Protestant churches are also very liberal. However, few Protestants care of their opinions and they are not binding. Protestants have a freedom to disagree with the Church but the Pope is infallible.


Jews and the Catholic Church. Although I am not an anti-Semite (in the Hitlerian sense) the Catholic Church has some really dubious theological views of Judaism.

The Church claims that the Jewish religious practice is actually valid and they don't need even need to believe in Jesus Christ to be saved!

The U. S. Bishops Committee for Ecumenical and Interreligious affairs: "Evangelizing task no longer includes the wish to absorb the Jewish faith into Christianity and so end the distinctive witness of Jews to God in human history. Thus, while the Catholic Church regards the saving act of Christ as central to the process of human salvation for all, it also believes that Jews already dwell in a saving covenant with God."

That view is a simple heresy. There is no salvation for perfidious Jews.

Jesus said: "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me." (John 14:6)
"And this is life everlasting that they know Thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ Whom Thou hast sent." (John 17.3), "
"And there is not salvation in any other. For neither is there any other name under heaven given to men, wherein we must be saved." (Acts 4.12)

However, the possibility of salvation is open to Jews and ignorant savages who have never understood the Catholic faith.

("Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 16).)

Lutherans believe, correctly, that the superstitions of savages or Muslims cannot lead to salvation. Also, all other Christians will be saved.

You won't impress anybody with all these quotations, because this is not a raci(ali)st forum.

Although most of recognize the existence of human races, we don't consider Negroes as subhumans. The Cathiolic Church is right here. The fact that they possess the equal human dignity like the Europeans doesn't mean they should be admitted to come here en masse.

"Vatican Decries Fence Planned For U.S. Border", New York Times, November 15, 2006.

Nobody here cares about the US border and whether the south states will be inhabited by the White Trash or by Mexicans. This is European nationalist board.

And what about the Protestants? Extra ecclesiam nulla salus. I proudly declare that I knowingly and deliberately reject the Catholic Church. Thus, according to the Church I will not be saved.

If the views expressed by you in this and in other threads were the essence of Lutheranism (and I think they aren't), then I would be extremely proud for not being a Lutheran.

[Tennyson]

Originally Posted by Plethon

You won't impress anybody with all these quotations, because this is not a raci(ali)st forum.

Although most of recognize the existence of human races, we don't consider Negroes as subhumans. The Cathiolic Church is right here. The fact that they possess the equal human dignity like the Europeans doesn't mean they should be admitted to come here en masse.

I never said that Negroes are subhumans. However, they neither need nor understand Christianity.

Is there need for Negro statues and saint cults in Europe? The statue in Magdeburg was an insult to Europe.

Despite their "equal human dignity" we don't need to worship Negroes in Europe.

Nobody here cares about the US border and whether the south states will be inhabited by the White Trash or by Mexicans. This is European nationalist board.

Did you miss the part about Muslim immigration to Europe?
More:
Allah Takes Over Catholic Church | The Brussels Journal

[Strengthandhonour]

I never seen much fighting with this.
Except for the other night when I was speaking with a girl and she called me backwards because I believe in evolution and that I am not a true catholic because I believe in evolution. Funny thing is I never said I was catholic and she was rambling about how great Lutherans are

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Milesian

The initial post is teeming with errors, inaccuracies and fallacies.

I would say more of the latter.

Tennyson has taken the information from wikipedia (see the source of the image and also check Saint Maurice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and where he says:

Originally Posted by Tennyson

Already in Medieval times the Church elevated Negroes to sainthood.

He hides (by means of not mentioning) that:

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Sometimes St. Maurice is represented as a black Moor. However, Jean Devisse points out that it was not until 1240 that St. Maurice appears as a black man. Prior to that, he had been depicted as a white man.[5][6] Because of this discrepancy, Maurice is depicted as possessing characteristics of different ethnic groups, depending on when a given image was produced. The images of Saint Maurice at the Cathedral of Magdeburg are images in which Maurice is depicted as a black man.

That is to say that he was elevated to the altars a few hundred years before even being depited as a Black man.

What little is know of St. Maurice is that he was a Coptic Egyptian. I wonder why then Tennyson does not accuse of the same to Protestants for venerating a Middle Eastern Anatolian, such as was St. Nicholas (aka Santa Klaus: Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Originally Posted by Tennyson

Today, the Catholic Church is a major force pushing for open borders.

Except for those of us who reject such things as ecumenism (with the exception of an approach of the Eastern and Western Churches), as multiculturalism.

I refuse to get identified with sects who use the fallacy and the defamation as a model of proselitism.

It will take time to address them all but I will make a point of doings so over the weekend.

I'll look forward to what Plethon and you have to say in the matter.

[Tennyson]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I would say more of the latter.

Tennyson has taken the information from wikipedia (see the source of the image and also check Saint Maurice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and where he says:He hides (by means of not mentioning) that:That is to say that he was elevated to the altars a few hundred years before even being depited as a Black man.

What little is know of St. Maurice is that he was a Coptic Egyptian. I wonder why then Tennyson does not accuse of the same to Protestants for venerating a Middle Eastern Anatolian, such as was St. Nicholas (aka Santa Klaus: Saint Nicholas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

Replied with PM. BTW, the Wikipedia article apparently says that Saint Nicholas was Greek.

Except for those of us who reject such things as ecumenism (with the exception of an approach of the Eastern and Western Churches), as multiculturalism.

I refuse to get identified with sects who use the fallacy and the defamation as a model of proselitism.

The views of the liberal cardinals are a problem. Religious Catholics often follow the opinions of the Church authorities and because the Church does not condemn even Muslim immigration and promotes immigrant rights European nations suffer.

The equally liberal views of Protestant bishops really are a much smaller problem because they have lost all their authority. Nobody cares of their views anymore.

I'll look forward to what Plethon and you have to say in the matter.

I might also add that miscegenation was far more common in Catholic colonies than in Protestant colonies.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Plethon

Nobody here cares about the US border and whether the south states will be inhabited by the White Trash or by Mexicans. This is European nationalist board.

I am correcting myself: I prefer Mexicans.