We must not let this ancient Church slide into oblivion

[Aptrgangr]

We must not let this ancient Church slide into oblivion

Iraq’s Assyrian Christians face extinction four years after the toppling of Saddam, says Ed West

“When they cook a dish in the Middle East, it is traditional to put the meat on top of the rice when they serve it. They kidnapped a woman’s baby in Baghdad, a toddler, and because the mother was unable to pay the ransom, they returned her child – beheaded, roasted and served on a mound of rice.” The infant’s crime was to be an Assyrian, but this story, reported by the Barnabus Fund, went unnoticed in the West, like so many other horrific accounts of Christian persecution in Iraq.
Since the invasion of Iraq, Muslim militants have bombed 28 churches and murdered hundreds of Christians. Last October, Islamists beheaded a priest in Mosul in revenge for the Pope’s remarks about Islam at Regensburg. But never let it be said that jihadis do not have a sense of ironic humour: that same month they crucified a 14-year-old Christian boy in Basra.
The latest report by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees estimates that two million Iraqis have fled since the invasion, and almost a third of these are Assyrian – who are down from 1.4 million in Saddam’s Iraq to fewer than 500,000 today.
The Assyrians are one of the world’s oldest civilisations. Their empire collapsed in 612 BC after four and a half millennia of civilisation; Rome was still a village and the Angles and Saxons were a thousand years away from forming a partnership. Now, while one of the world’s oldest Christian nations faces extinction at the hands of Islamic extremists, the West does nothing.
Albert Michael and Eva Shamouel are the British representatives of the Assyrian Aid Society (AAS). Both fled Baathist Iraq as children, joining Britain’s 8,000 strong Assyrian community based in west London. “I was brought up in an area of Baghdad called Dora before coming here when I was six,” says Albert. “Dora was entirely made up of Assyrian Christians, but then the Baath party came along, and Saddam moved Arabs in to break up the concentration.” Now the whole city, particularly Dora, is a no-go area.
The AAS was founded in 1991 after Saddam moved his troops into the region commonly known as Kurdistan, although it is also the historical homeland of the Assyrians. A few members of the Assyrian Democratic Movement formed an emergency relief group to help those most in need of food, water, medicine and blankets, the first humanitarian charity to reach those refugees. “Since then we have raised $4.2m [£2.1m] from our own efforts,” says Albert. Most comes from America, but the British branch has recently become more organised, receiving official charitable status last summer.
So far they have received little help from outside their own people: “There were a few donations; the French embassy, one or two churches in Germany.” This is not down to an absence of Christian charity, they point out, but ignorance.
“I still remember this image of a woman holding a child fleeing for her life in 1991,” says Albert. “The BBC interviewed her, and she was referred to as a Kurd, even though she was speaking Aramaic. Everyone was labelled a Kurd.”
Aramaic is the language of the Assyrians, who are also referred to as Syriacs, Chaldeans or ChaldoAssyrians. “We have five different churches, several dialects, and three different names, but we are one people,” Albert stresses. Aramaic is also, of course, the language of Jesus and was spoken (with an American accent) in Mel Gibson’s film, The Passion of the Christ.

Albert and Eva’s forefathers have been Christian since at least the second century, and helped to spread the Word as far as China. Their history has been one of struggle. They survived the Muslim Arab invasion of the seventh century, and centuries of Turkish rule, a period that culminated in the genocide of 1914-1918, known as the Sefyo (“sword”). While Turkey remains in a state of denial about the murder of one million Armenians, the rest of the world is largely unaware that as many as 750,000 Assyrians and 200,000 Greeks were also butchered on the orders of the Turks, largely aided by the Kurds.
Assyrian groups around the world recently wrote to Sylvester Stallone after it was announced that he is making a film about the Armenian Genocide. “We hope Sly doesn’t forget us,” Albert says.
After Iraq was created with the help of the Assyrians – nicknamed “Britain’s smallest ally” in the First World War – they suffered persecution at the hands of the Arabs, who accused them of being conspirators with their imperialist fellow Christians. The1933 massacre of 3,000 civilians in Dohuk, northern Iraq, inspired the Polish lawyer Raphael Lemkin to coin the word “genocide”.
Now, Arab militants have almost cleansed southern Iraq of Assyrians, and in the north, Kurdish extremists are behind numerous unpublicised murders. “The Kurdish authorities don’t even want to recognise us – they call us ‘Christian Kurds’ ” – an irony that would not be lost on their compatriots over the border, officially labelled “Mountain Turks.”
The plight of Christian women is especially grim.
Eva points out: “A lot of women, both Christian and Muslim, are forced to cover their heads, whereas before you could go out without being intimidated, or having acid thrown on your face.”
Albert explains that it was unheard of for Christian women to turn to prostitution before. “But now there are numerous accounts in Jordan and Syria, and all out of desperation to feed their children. Some are selling their body parts, kidneys, but the worst case I heard was a woman with two children who had given up hope of feeding them. She ended up selling her children to Muslims.”
The women – often widows – are not allowed to work, while the West refuses to shelter them, finding their existence an embarrassment to Britain and America.

The AAS raises the money in the West and hands it straight to compatriots in the Middle East, with minimal administration costs (readers will also be pleased to know they cannot afford “charity muggers”). The funds pay for schools, housing, medical clinics, farming machinery, irrigation projects and other vital basics. “Saddam destroyed over 200 of our towns and villages, but with our very limited resources, we have rebuilt hundreds of homes.”
But their main hope is for a Christian administrative area in the Nineveh Plains, once their ancient capital. Without this protection, their numbers will shrink until they will reach a tipping point.
Soon, Assyrian civilisation may only exist in the British Museum, where their monuments still draw tourists from around the world. In the year that Britain agonises over its past role in the slave trade, it is inaction – on the part of a nation that both created and destroyed Iraq – that now threatens to blacken our country’s name.

The Catholic Herald - Britain\'s leading Catholic newspaper

Now, where is that sureme and uncreated cause, the great Big-Bang-Man, when it comes to protecting babies from being beheaded by Muslim savages? No wonder Christianity and the Occident is in this deep mess, the faction of that certain semitic moon god seems to be fully backed by him.

[Errigal]

How does your support for Israel's recent adventure in Lebanon match with this new concern of yours for Arab civilians?

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

How does your support for Israel's recent adventure in Lebanon match with this new concern of yours for Arab civilians?

What support for Israel's adventures?
I met some Christian Arabs, they were nice, educated and friendly persons - the very opposite of what I know from the Middle East in general.
Why do you think believing in an incapable and pathetic ghost might save Europe?

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

The Catholic Herald - Britain\'s leading Catholic newspaper

Now, where is that sureme and uncreated cause, the great Big-Bang-Man, when it comes to protecting babies from being beheaded by Muslim savages?

I think you are confusing God with Superman.

[Arthur Gordon Pym]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

Why do you think believing in an incapable and pathetic ghost might save Europe?

And you obviously think that spouting against this "incapable and pathetic ghost", as you call him, will save Europe. So then, continue this "useful" job.

But remember one thing: there are rarely atheists in the battlefields! Even the Red Army was forced, during the second world war, to let the priests into their units to offer "consolation".

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

What support for Israel's adventures?
I met some Christian Arabs, they were nice, educated and friendly persons - the very opposite of what I know from the Middle East in general.
Why do you think believing in an incapable and pathetic ghost might save Europe?

I don't. I myself am agnostic but I do strongly believe in the thousands of years of civilisation built up around the Christian Church and I believe in the moral message of Christ. I also have a strong belief in the moral message of Marcus Aurelius who was, of course, unconnected to Judaism. I also have to say that I have always had a strong dislike of atheism. One of the worst things organized religion has ever created is atheists.

I asked you a question in another thread which I don't think you answered. What would your ideal non-Christian Europe look like?

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by Milesian

I think you are confusing God with Superman.

Well, someone causing a Big Bang and creating billions of galaxies surely must be a superman. But a pathetic one when he even does not bother to have a baby from being beheaded and cooked.

Originally Posted by prometheus

And you obviously think that spouting against this "incapable and pathetic ghost", as you call him, will save Europe. So then, continue this "useful" job.

Lies and fraudulent ideologies are harmful. I do not care when you go along on your knees and crouch into dust invoking for help or what do I know. It is your business. I surely never will do this. Nationalists mustbe straight and proud.

Originally Posted by prometheus

But remember one thing: there are rarely atheists in the battlefields! Even the Red Army was forced, during the second world war, to let the priests into their units to offer "consolation".

This reminds me to an anecdote: The "state of materialistic-science", the former German Democratic Republic had an order that outlawed designating military aircrafts with the number 13, even the numbers' digit may not have been 13. After GDR's breakdown, 24 USSR built fighter planes, MiG-29 Fulcrum, were absorbed by the FRG Luftwaffe. They were designated 29+01 to 29+25, leaving out the 29+13...
I have been in some battles, I came out even more atheistic. No praying, no worshipping will help you but knowlegde and strength.

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

I don't. I myself am agnostic but I do strongly believe in the thousands of years of civilisation built up around the Christian Church and I believe in the moral message of Christ.

Yes, Christianity had good sides, but it also has had it's bad. Nevertheless I see no need to pursue an ideology of lies. Do not misundertand me, I appreciate ist when Christians are nationalists, but they are not because of but despite Christianity.
What would the moral message of Christ be? Give money to the poor? Okay, sometimes I give money to a beggar, when I see he is no junky or punk. But in fact that's weak and pitiful, when someone has utterly failed he has to draw the right conclusion and should not be supported by others. Jesus said "Love you enemy" no? I hate and disdain my enemies, and they hate and disdain me, anything else is knick-knack.

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

I also have a strong belief in the moral message of Marcus Aurelius who was, of course, unconnected to Judaism.

Can you elaborate on that?

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

I also have to say that I have always had a strong dislike of atheism. One of the worst things organized religion has ever created is atheists.

And I always scorned wishi-washi agnostics, I am tired of them
A religios fundamentalist is of more interest for me, at least that one takes a stand and wishes me to hell.

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

I asked you a question in another thread which I don't think you answered. What would your ideal non-Christian Europe look like?

And you are busy with replying to my questions, no?
The ideal would be common moral and ethics.

[svin]

I hate and disdain my enemies, and they hate and disdain me, anything else is knick-knack.

Could be offtopic...

Ernst Juenger (clearly one of the greatest soldiers/warriors of the 20th century) in his diaries "In Stahlgewittern" wrote that he had never hated his enemies, but rather respected them...

He described some funny moments when accidentally someone from one of the sides (English or German) proposed temporary armistice, then soldiers started exchanging cigarettes and other goods and there were laughs from both of the sides... After some minutes, the war continued.

By the way, he converted to Catholicism in 90's.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

Well, someone causing a Big Bang and creating billions of galaxies surely must be a superman.

Why?
And how can you explain the Universe and everything in creation without God?
There is no point in looking to Evolution or anything else.
There are plenty of theistic scientists and particularly in the fields of physics and cosmology.......and with good reason.

Saying that everything is just one astronomically improbable coincidence doesn't cut it, and the anthropological model is now held as nothing more than a cop-out.
In fact, to believe in our existence without a governing intelligence is much more far fetched than believing in God.

But a pathetic one when he even does not bother to have a baby from being beheaded and cooked.

You are basically saying that you cannot understand why a benevolent, all-powerful being would allow evil to occur. To understand that question you must understand the concept of Free Will and it's logical consequences. Only then can you answer your question. The theological masterpiece, the Summa Theologica, is a good place to start. Aquinas addressed many of these fundamental questions from a rational, philosphical point of view.

Someone once said to me that Atheists hold the same image of God that a child does, of some bearded man in white robes living in the clouds. This image never develops further in their minds, so it is little surprising that they come to consider God as a ridiculous fantasy.

I hate and disdain my enemies, and they hate and disdain me, anything else is knick-knack.

An animal is capable of such simplistic emotions too.
What credit is any of this to you?

And I always scorned wishi-washi agnostics,

Despite being a Christian, I have a respect for Agnostics that I'm afraid I cannot muster for Athiests. The Agnostic says to himself, "I cannot prove nor disprove the existence of God beyond reasonable doubt. Therefore the only conclusion I can draw is that he may or may not exist, but I personally do not know the answer".

He is being entirely logical and honest. I can find little to criticise in such a position. It is a scientific conclusion.

Atheism, on the other hand, is neither logical nor honest.
It is a belief system as much as any other religion, and it's adherents are often the most militant and fanatical.

A religios fundamentalist is of more interest for me, at least that one takes a stand and wishes me to hell.

I wish no ill will to people simply because they are wrong or mistaken

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

Jesus said "Love you enemy" no? I hate and disdain my enemies, and they hate and disdain me, anything else is knick-knack.

No wonder the Israelis and Americans have earned your respect.

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

Can you elaborate on that?

He was a very interesting man. Here is a brief biography:

[Marcus Aurelius (Marcus Aelius Aurelius Antoninus)
121–180, Roman emperor, named originally Marcus Annius Verus. He was a nephew of Faustina, the wife of Antoninus Pius, who adopted him. Marcus married Antoninus’ daughter, another Faustina. From youth he was a diligent student and a zealous Stoic. With his adoptive brother, Lucius Verus, as colleague, Marcus succeeded Antoninus in 161. Verus allowed him to dominate, and from 169 Marcus was sole emperor. His reign was spent defending the empire against Parthians, Germans, and Britons. He won a victory over the Marcomanni (167–168), which was commemorated by the Antonine column (Piazza Colonna, Rome), erected by his son and successor, Commodus. Devoted to his duty and humanitarian in his conception of it, Marcus Aurelius was concerned with improving living conditions for the poor, particularly minors. He was always lenient with political criminals and tried to decrease the brutality at gladiatorial shows. He did, however, persecute the Christians, whom he regarded as natural enemies of the empire. His Meditations, available in several translations, expresses with great beauty and humanity a philosophy with a Stoic basis. The virtuous character of Marcus Aurelius is revealed in his letters to his tutor Fronto. 1See biography by A. R. Birley (1966); study by J. H. Oliver (1970).

source

Originally Posted by Aptrgangr

And I always scorned wishi-washi agnostics, I am tired of them
A religios fundamentalist is of more interest for me, at least that one takes a stand and wishes me to hell.

I think you and I are very different. I am repelled by extremism while you seem to be attracted to it. The reason I describe myself as agnostic is that although I embrace Christian culture and ethics I can’t truthfully say I believe some of the key articles of faith like the Nicene Creed. If that’s wishy-washy then so be it.

[Susi]

Just a Susi-susi point..

If the Assyrian empire collapsed in 612 BC wouldn't it have been impossible for them to be Christian?

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Susi

Just a Susi-susi point..

If the Assyrian empire collapsed in 612 BC wouldn't it have been impossible for them to be Christian?

Today they are an ethnic group:

Assyrian people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia