Pope to beautify 148 priests shot in Civil War

[Ferran]

Pope to beautify 148 priests shot in Civil War

27 June 2006

MADRID — On his first visit to Spain Pope Benedict XVI is to beautify 148 priests who were persecuted and killed during the Spanish Civil War, it was reported on Tuesday.

The Pope is due to attend a conference on the family in Valencia between 8-9 July.

Meanwhile, amid tensions between conservative and liberal wings of the Spanish Roman Catholic Church, the Pope backed the right-wingers.

In a letter sent by the head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in the Vatican, Angelo Anato, to the Spanish bishops' council, the Vatican congratulated the Spanish Church for a recent message in which it warned of "deficient theological proposals".

The Spanish Church, in its plan for the next four years, had attacked "rationalist and strictly sociological interpretations" of Catholicism and "secular moral relativism".

It comes after continued rows between the Spanish Church and the socialist government in Madrid over a series of social reforms including legalising same-sex weddings and adoption and faster divorces.

[Copyright EFE with Expatica]



Source: http://www.expatica.com/source/site_...+in+Civil+War+

[Milesian]

It's about time that the Vatican officialy recognised the numerous martyrdoms endured during that horrible period.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Milesian

It's about time that the Vatican officialy recognised the numerous martyrdoms endured during that horrible period.

The Civil War in Spain is a tragic example of what could have happened in many other European nations if events just after the defeat of Germany had gone differently. Stalin and his allies in western European nations could have re-created these horrors from Poland to the Atlantic. That is why I see the Cold War stalemate as a kind of victory when compared to the alternative. I have a similar view of the partition of Ireland; it was an unjust compromise which avoided the much greater horrors Spain suffered a few years later.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

it was an unjust compromise which avoided the much greater horrors Spain suffered a few years later.

What horrors do you envision if partition hadn't happened?
It didn't avert eight decades of carnage in the north that continues to this day, and it resulted in a bloody civil war in the Free State that still mars politics in the 26 counties.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Milesian

What horrors do you envision if partition hadn't happened?
It didn't avert eight decades of carnage in the north that continues to this day, and it resulted in a bloody civil war in the Free State that still mars politics in the 26 counties.

Partition removed the Ulster Volunteer Force from the field of battle just before the Civil War took place. If the UVF, with its large reserve of men and officers with miltary experience and weapons had joined the fight in the south the result would have been very bloody. Partition was preferable to that alternative in my opinion.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

Partition removed the Ulster Volunteer Force from the field of battle just before the Civil War took place. If the UVF, with its large reserve of men and officers with miltary experience and weapons had joined the fight in the south the result would have been very bloody. Partition was preferable to that alternative in my opinion.

I doubt the presence of the UVF would hardly cause anymore havoc than the British Army, Auxilarries, Black and Tans and RIC did. The level of carnage and atrocities commited by an armed minority militia would likely have been largely unnoticable compared to the deeds commited by offically sanctioned regular and reserve British armed forces anyway. Partition did nothing but stretch the whole thing out. If not for partition, Ireland would very likely be at peace one way or another at present, without having to suffer from civil war in the south and what basically amounts to civil war continuing intermittently in the north since the 1920's.

Personally, I feel a short period of increased bloodshed would have been preferable and resulted in less lost lives in the long-term than the present stalemate which has persisted.

[Savage]

Priests or junkies or somailans, its the same. Junkies and somalians dies in thousands everyday, and for the death of 150 priests, who could care less? Personally I care more for the neighbours dead cat.

Some may consider them more holy, important or valuable than others that creeps the surface of the earth? Especially themselves.

These spiritual parasites claim to be "saved" and have "eternal life", so after all, it cant hurt them to have become real alive in Heaven...? Heaven is a nice place, and God is a nice gay, isn`t he?...

And, a dead priest cannot be a bad priest.

(Edited by TH)

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Thore Hund

[color="Navy"]Priests or junkies or somailans, its the same. Junkies and somalians dies in thousands everyday, and for the death of 150 priests, who could care less? Personally I care more for the neighbours dead cat.

You care more about a cat than a human being?
I have no sympathy with junkies but I still care more about a human being regardless of it's race or religion than a furry animal.

Some may consider them more holy, important or valuable than others that creeps the surface of the earth? Especially themselves.

More accurately, you consider them less important and valuable than others, right?

These spiritual parasites claim to be "saved" and have "eternal life", so after all, it cant hurt them to be killed..?

No priest claims to be "saved". You seem to be confusing them with Evangelical, Sola Fide Protestants.

A dead priest is a good priest.

Why?

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Milesian

You care more about a cat than a human being?
I have no sympathy with junkies but I still care more about a human being regardless of it's race or religion than a furry animal.

I do not see animals as inferior to humans. They lack intellects, but have other abilities. The neighbours cat is a personal relation, the dead priests are not. And that they were priests does not impress on any level, I care as much for sick junkies, dying in thousands daily. The care is subjective, also how we value their various roles.

More accurately, you consider them less important and valuable than others, right?

No , but exactly the same. That we consider for example cats as less valuable as priests, are all subjective. But of course understandable. But not nescessarily in a pantheistic or gnostic view.

No priest claims to be "saved". You seem to be confusing them with Evangelical, Sola Fide Protestants.

We are all "saved" and all have eternal life, also priests and cats. The evangelium of resurrection by submitting to Christ is selling water by the river.

Why?

A dead priest can do no more harm. And I consider the Churches the Devils embassies on earth.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Thore Hund

[color="Navy"]I do not see animals as inferior to humans.

No, you see them as superior to some human beings hence your statement about the neighbour's cat.

They lack intellects, but have other abilities.

On the contrary, cats are fairly intelligent creatures.

The neighbours cat is a personal relation, the dead priests are not.

the cat is not a relation of yours, it is not even the same species.
Biologically, those dead priests are far closer related to you than any cat no matter where it lives in relation to you.

And that they were priests does not impress on any level, I care as much for sick junkies, dying in thousands daily.

Me too.
The difference is you care about neither whereas I care about both.

The care is subjective, also how we value their various roles

I am a moral absolutist, not a moral relativist.
Relavitism is both a cause and symptom of our modern, liberal, decadance.

No , but exactly the same.

That cannot be true for you earlier said you care more about the neighbours cat. not that you valued them the same.

That we consider for example cats as less valuable as priests, are all subjective. But of course understandable. But not nescessarily in a pantheistic or gnostic view.

So what has cats given to us of equal value to the Church?

We are all "saved" and all have eternal life, also priests and cats.

Based on what?

A dead priest can do no more harm.

Neither can he do anymore good

And I consider the Churches the Devils embassies on earth.

Leaving aside your own obvious personal feelings for the Church, you cannot realistically deny the great benefits the Church has bestowed upon European civilisation and people without rejecting two thousand years of historical fact.
This history does not tally with your statement here.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Thore Hund

Priests or junkies or somailans, its the same. Junkies and somalians dies in thousands everyday, and for the death of 150 priests, who could care less? Personally I care more for the neighbours dead cat.

Some may consider them more holy, important or valuable than others that creeps the surface of the earth? Especially themselves.

These spiritual parasites claim to be "saved" and have "eternal life", so after all, it cant hurt them to have become real alive in Heaven...? Heaven is a nice place, and God is a nice gay, isn`t he?...

And, a dead priest cannot be a bad priest.

(Edited by TH)

Those I would feel more compassion with in this case were primary the children of these priests.

Also a formal execuse to their families should be stated secular.

But Benefication of a large group are very thin. Perhaps even abuse of the function, since it may lead to further inflation of the content of it.

Advocatus Diabolis has not been engaged?

That office seems to be corrupt anyway. Remember the polishe pope, in his short reign he canonized more saints than any pope before him?

Now this new one really hits the big drum, and are making himself a name in history by world record numbers of Beatification.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Thore Hund

Those I would feel more compassion with in this case were primary the children of these priests.

What children of what priests?

But Benefication of a large group are very thin. Perhaps even abuse of the function, since it may lead to further inflation of the content of it.

Advocatus Diabolis has not been engaged?

Could you clarify?

That office seems to be corrupt anyway. Remember the polishe pope, in his short reign he canonized more saints than any pope before him?

Now this new one really hits the big drum, and are making himself a name in history by world record numbers of Beatification.

Here, I do agree with you.
There has been something rotten in the Vatican since at least The Second Vatican Council.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Milesian

No, you see them as superior to some human beings hence your statement about the neighbour's cat.

That should be taken not too literary... But cats have for looong times been considered holy inividuals in several high cultures. The Egyptian goddess Pst, or Bast are the cats own.

On the contrary, cats are fairly intelligent creatures.

There are cats of mysterious and brilliant intelligence and spirits sublimed far beyond most humans.

the cat is not a relation of yours, it is not even the same species.
Biologically, those dead priests are far closer related to you than any cat no matter where it lives in relation to you.

Some cats are in fact spiritually closer related to me than some humans.

Me too.
The difference is you care about neither whereas I care about both.

I care for both, both for care and for not care, it all depends on the actual substance, which have to be individual analyzed before a diagnosis can be set.

The Beatification of such a large group seems to be more reactive, as more of a condemnation of the violence and killing bestowed upon the priests, than a Beautification of them as individual servants of their Lord or the Church.

This may even be a part of a deal between rivalizing fractions in the Church...Intrigues and horsedealing has a long history behind those curtains...

That cannot be true for you earlier said you care more about the neighbours cat. not that you valued them the same.

A manner of speaking. But I like the cats evangelium better than the imperialistic monotheistic religions.

So what has cats given to us of equal value to the Church?

Love, wisdom, instinct, beauty...Keep the change..

Based on what?

Unbased. For some, probably salvation through faith, for others knowledge its already granted... This world is the Kingdom of Death, when we die, we come alive again.

Neither can he do anymore good

Well, as humans I symphatize with them, but the Beautification is another affair, it is the politics and business of the Vatican. And, Beautification may be the first step on a ladder which next step may lead canonization to Sainthood. That would however imply the services of AD. I imagine its expression to be of a triple clairvoyant fire examination...

Leaving aside your own obvious personal feelings for the Church, you cannot realistically deny the great benefits the Church has bestowed upon European civilisation and people without rejecting two thousand years of historical fact.
This history does not tally with your statement here.

Benefits? What benefits...?

For Norways share I can clearly see 1000 years of cultural destruction, hypocrazy and selfcontempt, culminating in now giving the whole country away to foreign invaders...

Of course the Church has both contributed and oppressed development on science, literature, arts and crafts. It has also crushed and oppressed any culture that came into its claws. It is not so long ago they got hindered from burning witches?