Pope to Meet With Jews, Muslims in Germany

[Nerthus]

Pope to Meet With Jews, Muslims in Germany

By Associated Press

VATICAN CITY -- Pope Benedict XVI will visit a synagogue, address Muslims and meet with representatives of other Christian denominations during next month's trip to his native Germany for the Roman Catholic Church's World Youth Day, the Vatican said Wednesday.

Source

[Ederico]

Well, quite ecumenical and not really to my liking. I hope that if he really chose his Papal name in honour of the Patron of Europe he acts upon it in concrete ways.

[Ebusitanus]

I thought we was quite outspoken against all these Sarracenes in Europe and not 110% eye to eye with Jews either. I guess it was just bollocks.

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Ebusitanus

I thought we was quite outspoken against all these Sarracenes in Europe and not 110% eye to eye with Jews either. I guess it was just bollocks.

We cannot be certain whether it is "bollocks" or not unless the Pope actually contradicts what he previously said by word or by actions. Meeting with Jews and Muslims is not the end of the world per se and it is not necessarily a sign that the Pope changed his "outspoken" manners.

[Milesian]

http://www.novusordowatch.org/benedict.htm

[Perun]

I agree with Ederico, let's see how this turns out. Benedict XVI is well known for being highly critical of Islam and its growing influence in Europe.

As for the Jews.....well.....given the current climate, dont expect another Pius X to be on the way anytime soon. He may not be anti-Jewish per se, but as long as he's anti-Zionist or strongly critical of Zionist policies(and there's plenty of anti-Zionist sentiment even among Liberals and Neo-Catholics, since Catholic Arabs have suffered under Israeli occupation), I'll be content.

[Nerthus]

Originally Posted by Perun

As for the Jews.....well.....given the current climate, dont expect another Pius X to be on the way anytime soon. He may not be anti-Jewish per se, but as long as he's anti-Zionist or strongly critical of Zionist policies(and there's plenty of anti-Zionist sentiment even among Liberals and Neo-Catholics, since Catholic Arabs have suffered under Israeli occupation), I'll be content.

Yes, you have a point. And fact is, one can't really be publically anti-Jewish witout suffering any consequences.

[Perun]

Originally Posted by Aeternitas

Yes, you have a point. And fact is, one can't really be publically anti-Jewish witout suffering any consequences.

I certainly hope Benedict will not go as far as John Paul II did(and judging from the difference between the two concerning Islam he wont). Yet even John Paul II was critical of Israel and its policies.

As I said, critical attitudes towards Jews/Zionism/Israel on many levels is widespread within the Catholic Church. In fact the Catholic TV channel EWTN is probably the only place on television you'll hear any honesty on the question.

On their news program "World Over Live" for example they did a report about Catholics doing humanitarian work among the Palestinians and how the Israelis were often intentionally blocking their efforts. You never hear about this in the mainstream news.

I also loved the one discussion they had on how America should deal with Israel and the Middle East, and the general opinion of the commentators were that America should stop giving Israel blank checks to do what it pleases in the Middle East, and mentioned the strong influence the Israeli/Jewish lobby has in Washington!

Of course the station condemns "anti-semitism" and stressed good relations with the Jews whenever possible. Yet again, given the current climate what else can they do? The fact they actually mention many of these incidents and facts is more than enough to give people a basic introduction to the topic.

[Nerthus]

Interesting. I am even surprised they were not deemed as "anti-semitic" from the start, having in matter their criticism on jews. Nowadays that's enough to receive this label. Perhaps it's exactly the fact that they publically mention they condemn "anti-semitism" that was the smart move.

[Perun]

Well William Donahue of the Catholic League was condemned for anti-semitism for openly stating on national television, "Hollywood is controlled by secular Jews who hate Christianity in general and Catholicism in particular."

And you can read about that incident here:
http://www.catholicleague.org/cataly...ND%20HOLLYWOOD

Donahue made that statement as a response to the continual bashing of Mel Gibson by many Jewish organizations and high Jewish figures.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Perun

Donahue made that statement as a response to the continual bashing of Mel Gibson by many Jewish organizations and high Jewish figures.

Caiphas?

[Nerthus]

I see. In other words, it is perfectly ok for the Jewry to throw stones at others, but not viceversa. No one should be allowed to attack the chosen. Not news

[Perun]

Yeah that's basically it. You can't even criticise Israeli policies towards the Palestinians without being labelled an "anti-semitie" or "supporting the terrorists" in the States. God forbid you even question why America needs to be an ally of Israel.

[Perun]

This letter exchange in Crisis Magazine pretty much sums up the critical attitude towards Jews that as I said is pretty widespread among Catholics.


http://www.crisismagazine.com/november2004/letters.htm

The Problem of Anti-Semitism

Regarding David Finnigan’s review of Gabriel Schoenfeld’s The Return of Anti-Semitism: I confess that I have not read any of the books about the perceived rise of anti-Semitism that he lists, but I know that anti-Semitism is an age-old phenomenon that has deep roots in Europe and the Middle East. I would like to specifically address the allegations of rising anti-Semitism in the United States.

A large majority of Americans identify themselves as Christian, whether active or inactive. The increasingly aggressive attacks on Christian teachings and symbols by prominent Jewish organizations and individuals have not been lost on them. Their reactions range from sadness and hurt to the effect of creating a near siege mentality among many American Christians. Even the Religious Right, which has been steadfastly in Israel’s corner, is being attacked viciously by the Anti-Defamation League’s Abe Foxman and others. They remain steadfast because of their Dispensational theology, but other Christians are disaffected by what they perceive as anti-Christian hostility.

The Jewish moguls of Hollywood were once very accommodating of the American Christian majority in the entertainment they produced. For those old enough to remember, Catholics were treated especially well in movies like Boys Town, Going My Way, The Bells of St. Mary’s, and The Song of Bernadette. Even the gangster movies of the 1930s and 1940s usually included a Catholic priest, if only to administer last rites. Today, in contrast, movies and television have become very hostile to the Catholic Church and to Christian values. The vile and vicious attacks on Mel Gibson for The Passion of the Christ showed how far it has gone. Even Michael Medved and Dennis Prager, who were among the few prominent Jews to defend Gibson, were subjected to the same kind of vitriol.

Jewish organizations, and I include the ACLU among them, and individuals have been openly hostile to Christmas displays and carols and to any and all Christian symbols. In Los Angeles, County Supervisor Zev Yaroslavsky has joined the effort to delete “under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance. In spite of all efforts to squelch Christianity I have not heard any cries of “anti-Christicism” from Christian organizations. Perhaps someone will write a book about the growth of anti-Christicism in America. Or would that be too politically incorrect?

Gary K. Stark
La Palma, California

-----------------------------------------------------

David Finnigan's review of Gabriel Schoenfeld’s The Return of Anti-Semitism (“The Outrage Gap,” September 2004) implies that any criticism of the state of Israel is anti-Semitic in nature. I strongly disagree with such an assumption.

While the horrors of the Nazi Holocaust perpetrated against the Jewish people must be condemned in no uncertain terms, the Zionist state of Israel has its own sordid history. Consider the opinion of Lucian Heichler, a Jewish refugee who escaped Nazi persecution in 1938 and also served in the U.S. Army during World War II and the Foreign Service from 1954 to 1996. In the Summer 2002 edition of Issues, a journal of the American Council for Judaism, Heichler counted himself as a Jew who opposed Zionism. The "parallels between Nazi and Zionist definitions of the Jews as an ethnic group" offended him as a teenager. Heichler describes as romantically naive a slogan coined by Theodor Herzl, the founder of late 19th-century Zionism: "People without land, come to the land without people!" It seems the height of historical blindness to describe Palestine as a "land without people" when a Palestinian culture had been living in that part of the world for the past two thousand years. What did Herzl and his followers expect the Palestinians to do when the Zionists returned to the Promised Land?

Historical evidence supports the idea that part of the Zionist strategy was to force the Palestinians off the land to make room for those Jews "without land." Many Palestinians fled while hundreds of thousands remained and have lived in refugee camps for generations. It does seem a bit ironic that while Jews were forced into ghettoes by the Nazis, the Palestinians were forced into refugee camps by the Zionists.

Anti-Zionism does not equal anti-Semitism. I do not support the horrible suicide bomber mentality of the Palestinian terrorists, but I guardedly look into the motives of anyone who uses "anti-Semitism" to identify someone who is seriously trying to understand what has happened in history.

Jews, Muslims, and Christians might be able to live together in peace in the Middle East, but sweeping the history of Zionism under the rug will only delay that possibility.

David Hayden
Evansville, Indiana

[Nerthus]

Speaking of critical attitude towards Jews, I've read Jews claiming that Christianity overall teaches people to hate them. Here is an example to what I mean, an opinion written by Jews themselves for the Miami Herald:

New generation learns to hate Jews


My wife and I read Leonard Pitts' moving columns of July 10, Death camp visit shows the worst of humanity and Sad songs in hell, about his visit to the death camps in Poland.

We are Jewish, and though we have never visited the death camps in Poland, two months ago we did go to Buchenwald and Dachau. Our experience at Buchenwald was similar to what Pitts described.

He may have unknowingly answered his own question asking how the Holocaust could have happened when he interviewed Denise Deveaux, the 47-year-old English-literature teacher. In seeking to understand God's purpose she says, ``But I know that the scriptures say that they (the Jews) would be despised and rejected. Makes no sense to me, but who am I to question God and his purpose in things?''

In other words, she has been taught, as a Christian, that the scriptures preach that Jews would be despised and rejected -- perhaps for rejecting and/or killing Christ? -- and she does not question this. By not doing so, what is to be said for the millions of Christians who are taught to believe that the Jews should be despised and rejected? Is it really surprising to find out that some children who are taught that the Bible tells them to despise Jews should grow up to be adults who murder them?

IRA and JACKLYN LOEWY, Miami

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald...n/12199309.htm