Religious freedoms stressed in Pope's message to Spain

[Nerthus]

Religious freedoms stressed in Pope's message to Spain

Vatican, May. 23 - Pope Benedict XVI made an appeal for religious freedom in a message to the Catholic bishops of Spain, released during a heated debate in that country over legislation involving marriage, divorce, abortion, and homosexuality.

Source

[Milesian]

Vatican, May. 23 - Pope Benedict XVI made an appeal for religious freedom

Too soft. Bring back the Inquisition

Originally Posted by Pope Pius IX

From which totally false idea of social government they do not fear to foster that erroneous opinion, most fatal in its effects on the Catholic Church and the salvation of souls, called by Our Predecessor, Gregory XVI, an "insanity,"2 viz., that "liberty of conscience and worship is each man's personal right, which ought to be legally proclaimed and asserted in every rightly constituted society; and that a right resides in the citizens to an absolute liberty, which should be restrained by no authority whether ecclesiastical or civil, whereby they may be able openly and publicly to manifest and declare any of their ideas whatever, either by word of mouth, by the press, or in any other way." But, while they rashly affirm this, they do not think and consider that they are preaching "liberty of perdition;"

[Menydh]

La Voz de Galicia, 09 May 2005

Two youngsters detained after beating a verger

Two young men of around 21 years old, from Corunna, were detained in this town after beating the verger of a church, which they entered with an irreverent attitude interrupting the religious celebration.

...

The verger asked them to leave and, since they didn't, he threw them out. Later on, from inside the church it could be heard a glass breaking and the verger came out to shout at the youngsters, who jumped on him, threw him to ground and beat him reapeatedly. He had to be attended from the injuries at the hospital Juan Canalejo, with a traumatism in the elbow and the abdomen.

...

Also in El Correo Gallego, 10 May, 2005


What the papers don't say, but some have suggested on the internet, is that a part of the "irreverent attitude" of the two youngsters (both males) was that they were kissing each other.

This is not the first sign of hatred from faggots, transexuals and other degenerated individuals and assorted leftists, against the Catholic Church is not new. As an example, the events that I reported just two months ago on this thread: "Vaseline Lobby" Attempts to Assault the Bishopric See of Barcelona

[Milesian]

Oh yes, someone once told me of a Church in America where the Bishop had told the priests to refuse practising homosexuals Holy Communion. They all went en masse wearing provocative clothing and tried to recieve Communion. When the priest simply blessed them but refused them the sacrament, they caused a near riot and made a huge ordeal out of it all.

Drama Queens

Personally, I would have had them all physically "escorted" from the premises.
None of them were charged though as the local police were "reluctant" to take any action at all.


I don't see what their problem is.
If they don't like Catholic teachings and their homosexuality is more important to them then let them find something else. Why they feel the need to ram themselves down everyone elses throat (no pun intended) is beyond me.

It's not enough for them to be tolerated or even accepted.
Everyone must think and believe as they want them to.

Damned Homo-Fascists

[Faísca]

Originally Posted by Milesian

I don't see what their problem is.
If they don't like Catholic teachings and their homosexuality is more important to them then let them find something else. Why they feel the need to ram themselves down everyone elses throat (no pun intended) is beyond me.

It's not enough for them to be tolerated or even accepted.
Everyone must think and believe as they want them to.

My thoughts on the matter, exactly.

Btw, here are some passages from the Holy Bible regarding homosexuality.

Romanos 1:24-27

²⁴propter quod tradidit illos Deus in desideria cordis eorum in inmunditiam ut contumeliis adficiant corpora sua in semet ipsis

²⁵qui commutaverunt veritatem Dei in mendacio et coluerunt et servierunt creaturae potius quam creatori qui est benedictus in saecula amen

²⁶propterea tradidit illos Deus in passiones ignominiae nam feminae eorum inmutaverunt naturalem usum in eum usum qui est contra naturam

²⁷similiter autem et masculi relicto naturali usu feminae exarserunt in desideriis suis in invicem masculi in masculos turpitudinem operantes et mercedem quam oportuit erroris sui in semet ipsis recipientes

From the King James's Bible:

²⁴ Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

²⁵Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

²⁶For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

²⁷And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Leviticus 20:13

¹³qui dormierit cum masculo coitu femineo uterque operati sunt nefas morte moriantur sit sanguis eorum super eos

From the King James's Bible:

¹³If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Leviticus 18:22

²²cum masculo non commisceberis coitu femineo quia abominatio est

From the King James's Bible:

²²Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

I Corinthios 6:9,10

⁹an nescitis quia iniqui regnum Dei non possidebunt nolite errare neque fornicarii neque idolis servientes neque adulteri

¹⁰neque molles neque masculorum concubitores neque fures neque avari neque ebriosi neque maledici neque rapaces regnum Dei possidebunt

From the King James's Bible:

⁹Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

¹⁰Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

--------------------------

And for those who are now thinking that that is just the Old Testament.

According to Matthaeus 5:17-19, Jesus said:

¹⁷nolite putare quoniam veni solvere legem aut prophetas non veni solvere sed adimplere

¹⁸amen quippe dico vobis donec transeat caelum et terra iota unum aut unus apex non praeteribit a lege donec omnia fiant

¹⁹qui ergo solverit unum de mandatis istis minimis et docuerit sic homines minimus vocabitur in regno caelorum qui autem fecerit et docuerit hic magnus vocabitur in regno caelorum

From the King James's Bible:

¹⁷Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

¹⁸For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

¹⁹Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[Milesian]

Pity you used the contemptabile KJV when the Douay-Rheims is the best English version available

[SouthernBoy]

I like this new pope. It seems like Pope John Paul II, God rest his soul, did to much catering to non-Christians. Roman Catholics need a strong traditionalist who won't bend the Church's rules to be more politically correct, IMO.

[Nerthus]

I also agree with Milesian (for once ). Having in matter Catholicism rejects homosexuality, I don't see the point for a homosexual to try and receive Communion if he intends on keeping to his (sick) orientation. Who would even think that such people entering a church honestly wanted to receive Communion? A chruch is not a bar, disco or pub to wear provocative clothes in. They could have been just looking to cause trouble in the first place. One reason I really dislike gay people is their showing off attitude.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Aeternitas

I also agree with Milesian (for once ).

What do you mean, "for once"?
You used to be more agreeable before you fell in with the wrong crowd

Having in matter Catholicism rejects homosexuality, I don't see the point for a homosexual to try and receive Communion if he intends on keeping to his (sick) orientation. Who would even think that such people entering a church honestly wanted to receive Communion? A chruch is not a bar, disco or pub to wear provocative clothes in. They could have been just looking to cause trouble in the first place. One reason I really dislike gay people is their showing off attitude.

It's all about drama and outrage, which they thrive upon.
They aren't happy unless they are scandalising and embarassing others into doing things their way. They are bullies and they no longer crave acceptance but rather mental obedience to their opinions and outlooks, if not outright adoration.

[SouthernBoy]

Originally Posted by Aeternitas

A chruch is not a bar...

Huh?



(LOL. That one took forever to make! )

[Faísca]

Originally Posted by Milesian

Pity you used the contemptabile KJV when the Douay-Rheims is the best English version available

Hmm... You mean the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition?

Guess what?

PS: If you have a non-american edition available online, please do tell.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Johannes de León

Hmm... You mean the Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition?

No, obviously not

I meant this one

Originally Posted by Catholic Encyclopedia

The work of preparing such a version was undertaken by the members of the English College at Douai, in Flanders, founded by William Allen (afterwards cardinal) in 1568.

Guess what?

This perhaps?

Originally Posted by Catholic Encyclopedia

This had been declared authoritative for Catholics by the Council of Trent; but it was also commonly admitted that the text was purer than in any manuscripts at that time extant in the original languages.

PS: If you have a non-american edition available online, please do tell.

I did have, but not any longer I'm afraid

[Nerthus]

Speaking of America and Americans, I have stumbled across an article dealing with a subject somewhat related:

Gay Catholics fight for church acceptance

Growing up in a traditional Polish Catholic family in St. Clair Shores, Steve Osinski loved attending Mass, saying the rosary and praying to the saints.

"I never was one of the kids who dreaded going to Mass," he recalls. "I got something out of the Bible readings and from listening to the priest. Being Catholic is just part of me." When adolescence made him aware of being gay, Osinski embarked on a journey that started with trying to deny his sexuality and ended with his finding peace as a gay Catholic.

His lifeline was Dignity, a group that ministers to the spiritual needs of gay Catholics.

"I shouldn't have to choose between being gay and being Catholic. This is how God made me," says Osinski, who in September will mark his 20th year with his partner, Joe Lempicki, whom he met at a Dignity Detroit Mass.

Osinski's story is a familiar one in Dignity circles: Since 1969, the nationwide group has empowered gay Catholics who refuse to give up their religious birthright, even as the church leadership has turned increasingly anti-gay.

Preparing for its first convention since the architect of contemporary anti-gay Catholic policy was elevated to pope, Dignity USA faces a huge challenge: Becoming a more visible and persuasive witness to the conviction that gay sexuality is a gift from God that needs to be honored and expressed. (For details about the July convention, see DignityUSA.org.)

"There is a richness and depth to Catholic heritage that is very important to me," says New Yorker Jeff Stone, a member of Dignity since 1988. "I'm not going to be run out of my church by this pope. If the people who want change simply leave the church, who is going to be there to fight for change?"

In praying for change, gay Catholics join reformers who, for example, long for a future church with married priests, women priests and remarriage for the divorced without annulment.

"You can't leave what you are. It's like saying, 'Why don't you stop being under 6 feet tall?,'" says Dick Young of Ohio, a Dignity member since 1977.

Dignity's remarkable powers of attraction -- and retention -- are being put to the test by the choice of Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger to be pontiff.

Beginning in 1986, Ratzinger wrote a series of church documents that branded sexually active gays as "evil," told church officials to kick Dignity chapters off church property and even warned Catholic lawmakers that voting in favor of gay-rights legislation is "gravely immoral" because "the approval or legalization of evil is something far different from the toleration of evil." (See Ratzinger's views at www.glaad.org.)

And in his brief time as Pope Benedict XVI, his Vatican has urged Catholic clerks to disobey the anticipated law in Spain that will let gay couples marry and adopt children.

The Catholic hierarchy's hostility has been "incredibly damaging," says Dignity President Sam Sinnett of St. Louis. "That damage to people is what motivates so many of us in Dignity to be an alternative voice. I know I needed people who were comfortable putting the two words together -- 'gay' and 'Catholic.'"

In rejecting church teaching that gays must remain celibate, Dignity members point to "the primacy of conscience," a moral principle dating from St. Augustine that requires obeying one's conscience when it disagrees with church rules.

Alice Knowles of Boston rekindled her childhood Catholicism at 45 when a friend invited her to Dignity in 1998.

This year, she'll talk about being a gay married Catholic at the convention with Kathy Ann Gianino, her lawful wife. They met in Dignity Boston.

"The church isn't just the pope and the bishops. The church is the people," Knowles says. "It's spiritually fulfilling to be part of Dignity. This community is strong. And we aren't going away."

Dignity allows gay Catholics to be true to themselves and have faith that, one day, the church they love will embrace them.

The name 'Dignity' sounds awfully hypocritical and this whole story leads me to believe that a lot of groups there calling themselves 'Catholic' are decadence itself, following false principles.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Aeternitas

The name 'Dignity' sounds awfully hypocritical and this whole story leads me to believe that a lot of groups there calling themselves 'Catholic' are decadence itself, following false principles.

Yes, that's the great joke of it all.
At all times they deliberately make a point of stressing that they are Catholics, but everything they want to do is in regards to dismissing Catholic doctrine and re-writing a new religion in it's place.

It makes as much sense as me saying that I'm a Buddhist but I refuse to believe in re-incarnation, nirvana, pacifism, and various core Buddhist tenets. Oh, and I also want them all to start worshiping Jesus. And if the crusty old Dalai Lama can't handle change then he can take a flying f*ck to himself because he won't stop me being a Buddhist.....besides I've always enjoyed the chanting and prayer wheels.

Insanity.

Basically what these people are doing is calling themselves Catholics when the fact is that their opinions are in direct conflict with Catholicism. For someone who claimed to enjoy bible readings, one would have thought he would have realised this early on. So, he is just going to change the bits he doesn't like and everyone else better just like it. Even the Pope has no authority to do this kind of things so unless he is going to start claiming he's actually Jesus come back, I think he can be dismissed along with the rest of the looneys.