xian proselytism via email

[therimachos]

unlimited ridiculousness and catholic stupidity sent by email

WHETHER YOU BELIEVE OR NOT.... DO NOT DELETE UNTIL YOU HAVE READ

>THROUGH
>TO THE END.
>Is this of any relevance in the light of what happened in Asia on
>the
>26th of December
>Independent of any creed or Religion, it is better to be prepared
>and be
>in good Terms with GOD, though we never know when we will be
>leaving this
>world .... THE LAST SECRET OF FATIMA.
>The Church has given permission to reveal to the people the last
>part of
>the message. The Blessed Virgin Appeared to three children in
>Fatima,
>Portugal in 1917. This is a proven fact.
>One of these children is still alive, her name is Lucia and
>she is a
>Recluse nun and lives in a European monastery. Lucia
>disclosed the
>message for the first time to Pope Pio XXII, who after reading it
>sealed
>and stored it away without making it public. Later John XXIII
>read it
>and in the same manner as his predecessor, kept it out of
>public eye
>because he knew that once revealed, it will bring desperation
>and panic
>to the human kind. Now the time has come and permission has been
>granted
>from Pope John Paul II to reveal it to the children of God in
>order not
>to create panic, but to make people aware of this important
>message so
>everybody can be prepared. The Virgin told Lucia: "Go my child
>and tell
>the world what will come to pass during the years 1950-2005. Men
>are not
>practicing the commandments that our Father has given us.
>Evil is
>governing the world and is harvesting hate and resentment all
>over. Men
>will fabricate mortal weapons that destroy the world in minutes
>and half
>of the human race will be destroyed. The war will begin against
>Rome and
>there will be conflicts amongst religious orders. "God will
>allow all
>natural phenomenons like smoke, hale, cold, water, fire,
>flood,
>earthquakes, winds and inclement weather will slowly batter the
>planet.
>These things will come to pass in the year 2004. Those who
>do not
>believe, this is the time your beloved mother tells you those
>lacking
>charity towards others and those who do not love thy neighbour
>like my
>beloved Son has loved you all, cannot survive. They will wish
>they had
>died. Millions are imaginable, they will come and there is no
>doubt.
>Our Lord God will punish severely those who do not believe in
>Him, those
>who despise Him and those who did not have time for Him. I call
>upon all
>of you to come to my son Jesus Christ. God helps the world but
>all of
>those who do not show fidelity and loyalty will be destroyed.
>Father
>Agustin who lives in Fatima said that Pope Paul VI gave him
>permission to
>visit Sister Lucia who is a recluse nun (she does not
>leave the
>monastery nor allowed to receive any visitors). Father Agustin
>said that
>she was greatly overwhelmed to receive him and told
> him:
>"Father, our Lady is very sad because nobody is interested
>in her
>prophecy of 1917, though the righteous are walking through a
>narrow path,
>the evil ones are walking through an ample road that is
>leading them
>straight to their destruction. Believe me father, the
>punishment will
>come very soon. Many souls will be lost, many nations will
>disappear
>from the earth, but in the middle of all these, if men reflect,
>pray and
>practice good deeds, the world can be saved. On all of these,
>if men
>persist with its evil, the world will be lost forever. The time
>has come
>for all to pass on the message of our Blessed Lady to their
>families,
>friends and to the entire world. Start praying to make
>penitence and
>catastrophes are near. Due to this, many who were far from the
>church
>will return to the open arms of the Catholic Church. England,
>Russia,
>China, the Jews and Protestants, all will return
>believing and
>Worshipping God our Creator, in his beloved son and in our Blessed
>Mother
>Virgin Mary "WHAT AWAITS
> US?
>Everywhere there will be "Peace Talks" but punishments will come.
> A MAN
>IN A VERY IMPORTANT POSITION WILL BE ASSASSINATED AND THIS WILL
>PROVOKE THE
>WAR. A POWERFUL ARMY WILL DOMINATE ALL THROUGH EUROPE AND THE
>NUCLEAR WAR
>WILL COMMENCE.
>This war will destroy everything. Darkness will fall over us.
>For 72
>hours (three days) and the one third of humanity that
>survives this
>obscurity and sacrifice will commence to live a new era, they
>will be
>good people. In a very cold night, 10 minutes before midnight,
>A GREAT
>QUAKE will shake the earth for 8 hours. This will be the third
>Signal
>that God is who governs the earth. The righteous and those who
>propagate
>the faith and the message the Lady of Fatima SHOULD NOT FEAR, DO
>NOT BE
>AFRAID. WHAT TO DO????? Bow your heads kneel down and ask
>God for
>forgiveness because only what is good And is not under the power
>of evil
>will survive the catastrophe. In order for you to prepare and
>remain
>alive I will give you the following signs: ANGUISH ..........
>AND IN A
>SHORT
>PERIOD THE EARTHQUAKE WILL COMMENCE ..... THE EARTH WILL
>SHAKE .....
>The shake will be so violent that it will move the earth 23
>degrees then
>return to its normal position. Then total and absolute
>darkness will
>cover the entire planet .....All evil spirits will be mingling
>around and
>free, doing harm to all those souls that did not want to listen
>to this
>message and those who did not want to repent. To the faithful
>souls,
>remember to light the blessed candles. Prepare a Sacred altar
>with a
>crucifix in order to communicate with GOD and implore for his
>infinite
>mercy.... All will be dark; IN THE SKY A GREAT MYSTIC CROSS will
>appear
>to remind us the price that his beloved Son had to pay
>for our
>Redemption . In the house the only thing that can give light will
>be the
>HOLY CANDLES . Once lit nothing will put them off until the three
>days of
>darkness are over. Also you should have Holy Water that
>should be
>sprinkled abundantly on windows and doors. The Lord will
>protect the
>property of the chosen ones. Kneel down before the powerful
>cross of my
>Beloved son, pray the Rosary and after each Hail Mary, you must
>pray the
>following "Oh God forgive us our
> sins.
>preserve us from the fire of hell, take all souls into Heaven,
>especially
>those who are in more need of thy
>mercy.
>Blessed Virgin Mary, protect us, we love you, save us and save the
>world.
>"Pray 5 Creeds and the rosary which is the secret to my
>Immaculate
>Heart. All those who believe in my words, go and take the
>message to
>everyone. DO NOT FEAR FEAR NOTHING is time, those who keep quiet
>will be
>Responsible for all those souls who will perish in ignorance.
>All those
>who pray humbly the Rosary will have the protection of Heaven
>and those
>who are bound to die, I will help them die in peace and they will
>be Holy
>when they enter the other world, I wish all my children to
>attend mass
>every first Friday and every first Saturday of each month to
>confess and
>receive Holy Communion and in doing so, save the world
>from TOTAL
>DESTRUCTION .... WHEN the earth shakes no more, those who still
>will not
>believe in our Lord will perish in a horrible way. The wind
>will bring
>gas and it will disperse everywhere then the sun will rise. May
>be you
>will survive this catastrophe. Do not forget that God's
>punishment is
>Holy and ONCE IT HAS STARTED YOU SHOULD NOT LOOK OUTSIDE,
>UNDER ANY
>CIRCUMSTANCE, GOD DOES NOT WANT ANY OF HIS CHILDREN TO SEE
>WHEN HE
>PUNISHES THE SINNERS . All this encompasses with the writings of
>the Holy
>Scriptures ... Read in the New Testament Lucas 21-5; 121, 12:19,
>20: 20,
>29:33 Letters of St. Paul 3-8-14 Isaiah 40, 1:5:9 You must
>understand
>that God allows all these to happen. The Pope and Bishops
>are now
>awaiting another message that speaks about repentance and
>prayer.
>Remember that God's words are not a threat, but good news.
>Please
>reproduce these pages and send them to all the people that you
>know so we
>all can have the opportunity to repent and be saved. We do not
>know it
>those receiving this message believe or not in GOD, but think,
>there is a
>reason for receiving this message! May be, the Creator is giving us
>the
>chance to be saved, no matter what religion or Creed. It you
>do not
>believe in this message atleast send it to others, it will
>cost you
>nothing. To all those receiving it, they can have the
>opportunity to
>judge for themselves. Remember, we can avoid a great deal if we
>practice
>the 10 Commandments that Our Father God has left us. They are
>just 10
>simple things that if we put into practice, we can obtain God's
>pardon.
>Jesus in you I trust. Our Lady of Guadalupe. Did you know that
>Vasula
>Ryden said something about the towers in NY last September
>11, 1991?
>Christina Gallagher also said something last September 11,
> 1999?
>Something to the effect that America will be destroyed if they
>do not
>turn to Prayers. And do you remember the fluvial Marian
>procession
>spearheaded by Filipinos, the group of June Keithley, Lydia
>Sison, etc.
>and participated in by many countries was held in NY also last
>September
>11, 1999 for the Lady of all Nations? They are asking for
>Prayers, more
>Prayers, More Rosaries - because for one thing accordingly,
>because of
>the uncertainty of the times and fear for the worse due to the
>war more
>women (esp in NY) are resorting to abortion and they are being
>Helped or
>encouraged even more. Despite the prevalence already before, now
>it has
>increased due to panic. We are asked to pray unceasingly for
>them all.
>Also, this prayer to Our Lady of Guadalupe is very fitting.
>After all,
>she is the patroness of America and also of Pro-life.
>This is a
>beautiful prayer. Please do not break this chain... it is
>miraculous.
>for something! Letter to the Virgin of Guadalupe "Beautiful
>Virgin of
>Guadalupe, I ask you on behalf of all my brothers and sisters
>of the
>world that you bless us and protect us. Give us proof of your
>love and
>kindness and please receive our prayers. Oh pure Virgin of
>Guadalupe,
>give me, through your Son, forgiveness for my sins, blessings for
>my job,
>cure for my diseases and needs, and all that you deem
>necessary, I ask
>for my family and my country. Oh Saint Mother of God, do not
>disdain the
>pleas we present to you in our
>needs.
>"Dear Brothers and sisters, I want to impart to you the presence
>of the
>Virgin of Guadalupe. And that she is miraculous and is always
>with us
>wherever we go. This letter has the objective to go around the
>world to
>receive miracles with this beautiful chain. Try to make 19
>copies and
>share it during the following ten days and in return you will
>receive a
>proof from the Virgin no matter how impossible
>it is.
>THIS LETTER IS SACRED, if you receive it and share it before
>ten days,
>you will have a surprise and a great joy

[Milesian]

The Fatima Prophecy is pretty controversal itself and not everyone agrees that the Vatican released the correct prophecy. It was allegedly meant to be revealed before sometime in the 1960's.

There is an air of Protestant Rapturism about this email.
Why the fuss anyway? Can't you just delete it? That's what I would do

[therimachos]

Originally Posted by Milesian

The Fatima Prophecy is pretty controversal itself and not everyone agrees that the Vatican released the correct prophecy. It was allegedly meant to be revealed before sometime in the 1960's.

There is an air of Protestant Rapturism about this email.
Why the fuss anyway? Can't you just delete it? That's what I would do

well.....i dont give a damn about vatican and your contrary with protestants.....i also sympathise irish people.....
however its my pleasure to point out the stupidity of your religion!

i didnt write it myself.......its sent with email.....why to delete it?

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by therimachos

well.....i dont give a damn about vatican and your contrary with protestants

And? I never said you did or you should.
I was merely pointing out a fact, nothing more.

.....i also sympathise irish people.....

In what way?

however its my pleasure to point out the stupidity of your religion!

Why do you derive pleasure from doing so? Perhaps you need a hobby or something

i didnt write it myself.......its sent with email.....why to delete it?

Maybe because it's easier than copy and pasting it on here to bitch about it?

I don't have a problem with anyone having a differing opinion or willing to debate intelligently about the topic.

But simply copying something to highlight the "stupidity" of a religion is basically trolling as there is nothing to it other than provoke a reaction.

Please read the rules again

[Rusalka]

Originally Posted by Milesian

The Fatima Prophecy is pretty controversal itself and not everyone agrees that the Vatican released the correct prophecy. It was allegedly meant to be revealed before sometime in the 1960's.

So, was it revealed, bu the way? If I recall correctly one of the prophecies was supposed to be the assasination attempt of the Pope by Ali Agca.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Pseguash

So, was it revealed, bu the way?

The Vatican did eventually reveal what they claimed was the Third Prophecy, although some people claim it doesn't really make sense when you look at some things which Sister Lucia said. Some contend that part of it has been left out, whilst others say the offical version is a complete fabrication and the language used doesn't even ring true. Many Traditional Catholics tend to think it relates to the enemies within the Church who gained a victory at Vatican II, introducing heresy and mass apostacy to the Church.

Personally, I'm quite skeptical about most apparitions and the Church itself very rarely authenticates one. Most are discarded as being false.

Still, here is an excerpt from a website which thinks we've all been hoodwinked :

The mysterious "Third Secret of Fatima" remains under lock and key in a Vatican archive, while Vatican bureaucrats attempt to silence a Canadian priest leading a movement for its disclosure.
On February 8, 1960 Catholics around the world were stunned when the Vatican announced in an unsigned press release that the famous "Third Secret of Fatima" would not be disclosed that year, as expected, and would probably remain a secret forever. Thus began a controversy in the Catholic Church which shows no signs of dying out, more than 35 years later.
What is the "Third Secret", and why is a Canadian priest, Father Nicholas Gruner, under fire by the Vatican bureaucracy for probing into it?

The Message of Fatima

The three "secrets" of Fatima are part of the overall "Message of Fatima" said to have been conveyed by the Virgin Mary in a series of apparitions to three shepherd children, Franciso, Jacinta and Lucia, at Fatima, Portugal in 1917. The apparitions culminated on October 13, 1917, when 80,000 people gathered in a field to witness a sign the children said would be given to confirm the truth of their account. At the appointed time, the terrified crowd saw the sun descend from the sky, spin about and throw off dazzling colors. The event received worldwide press coverage and was even the subject of a Warner Brothers movie entitled "The Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima."
After a lengthy investigation by Catholic Church authorities, the Fatima apparitions were pronounced authentic and worthy of belief. With the consent of Pope Pius XII, the first two "secrets" of the Fatima message were disclosed to the world in 1942. These secrets predicted World War II and the rise of international Communism. They also call for the "consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary" by the Pope in union with the bishops in order to end Communism and bring peace to the world. Whether this "consecration" has been done is another matter of high controversy in the Church, with some Catholics claiming it was done by Pope John Paul II in 1984. An article in Newsweek magazine suggests that the putative 1984 consecration is related to the collapse of the Soviet empire.

The "Third Secret" Suppressed

In 1957 a sealed envelope was transmitted from Fatima to the Holy Office at the Vatican. It contained the full text of the mysterious "Third Secret" in the handwriting of the only surviving Fatima seer, Lucia, who is now a cloistered nun in Coimbra, Portugal. By publicly announced agreement, the Third Secret was to be disclosed to the world not later than 1960. Then came the unexpected Vatican announcement that it would be suppressed.
To this day the Third Secret remains under lock and key in the Vatican archives, and sister Lucy has been forbidden to discuss it with anyone. But Pope John XXIII, Pope Paul VI and Pope John Paul II all read the Secret in private, as has John Paul II's right hand man, Cardinal Josef Ratzinger, Prefect of the Vatican's Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
The suppression of the Third Secret has naturally led to speculation among Catholics that its contents must be nothing short of explosive. Yet the official Vatican line is that the Secret contains nothing that has not already been revealed in Scripture. If that is so, then why is it being suppressed?
In November 1984 Ratzinger gave a tantalizing hint of what the Third Secret contains when he admitted that it refers to "dangers which threaten the Faith and the life of the Christian, and therefore of the world."

Enter Father Gruner

Father Nicholas Gruner has given voice to the growing movement for disclosure of "The Third Secret." Ordained in Avellino, Italy in 1976, Father Gruner received permission in 1978 to reside in Canada, his home country, where he has since been engaged in a worldwide Catholic apostolate devoted to promoting awareness of "the full Fatima Message". The apostolate has used print, radio and television media to petition for disclosure of the Third Secret, as well as the "consecration" of Russia to the Virgin Mary, which many Catholics believe has yet to be done. The media effort has included an open letter to the Pope in a major Italian newspaper, which caused a furor in the Roman press.

The "Great Apostasy"

Father Gruner has widely publicized the work of several Fatima experts who believe they have deduced what the Third Secret contains: a warning that the Catholic Church will undergo a catastrophic loss of faith and discipline beginning around 1960 - the "great apostasy" predicted in Scripture as a harbinger of the end times.
As evidence for this view, these experts point to unprecedented change and upheaval in the Catholic Church since the Second Vatican Council was convened in 1960: the abandonment of all traditional forms of worship in Latin, the collapse of traditional orders of priests and nuns, the exodus of Catholics from the Church, the precipitous drop in Mass attendance among those remaining, the drastic decline in priestly and religious vocations, the innumerable sexual scandals involving priests and even bishops, and the widespread refusal of nominal Catholics in the pews to adhere any longer to Papal teaching on contraception, divorce, abortion or any other matter on which they "disagree" with the Pope.
Father Gruner, too, is convinced that the Third Secret warns of precisely these events, and that this would explain its suppression: "Obviously, no Vatican official would be eager to reveal a warning from Heaven which says that the great apostasy in the Catholic Church is going to happen on his watch."

Bureaucratic Forces

Father Gruner's pursuit of the Third Secret has earned him the enmity of certain members of the Vatican bureaucracy.
Father Gruner says that over the past few years two high-ranking Vatican officials in the Congregation for the Clergy, acting outside the proper channels of canon law, have been issuing a stream of deceptive "declarations" stating that Father Gruner's apostolate lacks "permission of ecclesiastical authority" and that no bishop should support him or the apostolate.
Father Gruner says these pronouncements are misleading to the faithful because Church law guarantees all Catholics, including priests, the right to form private associations of the faithful to express their concerns about Church affairs. He notes that he has received private expressions of support from over 1,500 bishops and 72 cardinals "who aren't fooled by the bureaucratic propaganda."
Over the past several years opposition to Father Gruner's work has taken on the appearance of an international campaign, orchestrated in large part by the two Vatican officials:
In October 1992, while in the Sacristy of the Fatima Shrine in Portugal, Father Gruner was beaten up by two men who fled the scene. They were later identified as employees of the Shrine. The rector of the Shrine at first denied that Father Gruner had been assaulted, but was forced to admit it when eyewitnesses came forward.
After this incident the Blue Army, an international Catholic organization with close ties to Vatican bureaucrats, began publishing stories highly critical of Father Gruner in its magazine. These were followed up by "bulletins" in local Blue Army newsletters repeating the "declarations" made by the two officials.
Father Gruner points out that some years earlier his own magazine ran an article demonstrating that a purported interview with Sister Lucy published by the Blue Army "never took place and was a complete fabrication, as they were later forced to admit." He says that the "fake interview fiasco" resulted from increasing bureaucratic control over the Blue Army, making it a vehicle for propaganda against disclosure of the Third Secret and the "consecration" of Russia.
Father Gruner says that the campaign to "neutralize" him climaxed in 1994, when the bishop of Avellino, under pressure from Rome, suddenly ordered him to return to Avellino immediately and drop his work of 18 years. The only reason given for the order was that Father Gruner had failed to find another bishop to sponsor him. Father Gruner says that several bishops have offered to sponsor him, but each one was approached by a Vatican representative and pressured into withdrawing the offer. "It's the Catholic version of Catch-22: They order me to find another bishop. Then they tell all the bishops not to accept me."
Father Gruner's files contain one particularly telling document: A benevolent Archbishop's decree of "incardination" invites Father Gruner into his Archdiocese and states that "evil forces have conspired to put an end to your work of love, but ... bureaucratic forces cannot stifle God's work." Father Gruner says that the Archbishop was soon pressured by those same "bureaucratic forces" to retract the decree. "The Archbishop wrote me to say that he hopes I understand his predicament, and his assistant told me that he feared reprisals against the whole Archdiocese if he accepted me there."

An Unprecedented Appeal to the Pope

Father Gruner is appealing the order to return to Avellino in the Church's canonical court system. He has also filed an unprecedented canonical lawsuit with Pope John Paul II himself, charging the two Vatican officials and their collaborators with "abuse of ecclesiastical authority". He believes he is the first priest ever to take advantage of a new Church law permitting such suits. Several lay women who are directors of the apostolate filed their own canonical lawsuit with the Pope, claiming that their right to engage in the apostolate as members of the laity has also been violated by abuse of authority.
Father Gruner is hopeful about the outcome of these appeals to the Pope: "We are praying for the Holy Father's intervention. I know that he is very devoted to Our Lady of Fatima." Father Gruner is emphatic in his denial that the Pope has anything to do with the effort to silence him: "This is a case of some Vatican bureaucrats running a rogue operation and covering their tracks. They even sat in judgment on the first level of my appeal, upholding their own actions against me!"

The Mystery Continues

The worldwide campaign by Vatican bureaucrats against a lone Canadian priest suggests there may be something to the hypothesis that the Third Secret of Fatima foretells a "great apostasy" during the tenure of current Vatican officials. Is this a case of guilty parties concealing a heavenly indictment of their governance of the Church?
Disclosure of the Third Secret would answer the question. Until then, Catholics will continue to wonder about the mystery of its suppression.

http://www.fatima.org/news/newsviews/secret02.asp