Say "NO" to US nuclear weapons in Europe

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

Poland had other ethnic borders before the nazis and the communists comminted genocide and mass deportation.Original ethinc borders included West Belarus and West Ukraine.Today however it is different and the past can't be changed.

A quick search shows that those lands were of Belarusian and Ukrainian ethnic majorities, respectively. Therefore not Polish.

[Wladyslaw Warnenczyk]

Originally Posted by Menydh

Wladyslaw, it is rare on Stirpes to read as much confusion as the one coming from your posts. So let me start by making clear a few concepts that you confuse... terribly.

First of all, you are a Pole and you speak of Western Europe. Since when Poland is Western Europe? Last time I checked, Poland was Eastern Europe.

Secondly, whether you agree or not about Russia being European, it is of little consequence. If any at all. Russians are genetically European, they are geographically European, they are culturally and spiritually European.

Therefore it is not possible to be anti-Russian and pro-American, if one is pro-European.

Thirdly, to be a Nationalist is -by definition- to belong to one nation and to strive for the sovereignty, the freedom, the wellbeing, and the ethnic, cultural and spiritual preservation of that nation. From this it derives that a European Nationalist is someone who is a Nationalist and whose nation is a European one.

There is no such thing as a "European nation" and it is therefore myopic to think that European Nationalist means anything in the way of Europe being a nation.

A different matter is that by labeling oneself a European Nationalist, he is stating a strong pro-European stance.

Fourthly, the European Union and Europe are not the same thing. One of the goals of the EU is the accesion of Turkey in Europe. A country which is clearly not European. Others like Morocco and Israel, clearly not European either, should be the next under the directives of the European Union.

In other words, the EU is not only anti-Nationalist but it is also anti-European.

Lastly, the deployment of US American weapons in Europe is an interference aimed to provoke another Cold War, which would keep a part of Europe dependent of the US military business (aka alliance).

Firstly,Russia might be geographically and genetically european,but it has always acted against the european nations by enslaving many of them and commiting genocide.HOwever even if we forget history and aim at today's situation russians are still anti-european mainly because of Putin's propaganda.

Secondly,by saying i am european nationalist i mean i love european cultures and nations,and think of their interrest.I see the EU as good for european nations and cultures,although i don't agree with some of the EU's decisions like the ones you mentioned considering Turkey and Marocco.

Thirdly, i don't think the U.S. is trying to provoke another Cold War by deploying anti-rocket shield,but to expand it's anti-russian influence in Europe,which i think is good for Poland and Europe as a whole.

And finally, i don't wan't to sound as some racist,schouvinist russian-hater!I have communicated with lots of russians and have nothing against them.I am against the russian politicians,which i believe are trying to make this european nation non-european,using anti-european and anti-western propaganda.

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

Firstly,Russia might be geographically and genetically european,but it has always acted against the european nations by enslaving many of them and commiting genocide.HOwever even if we forget history and aim at today's situation russians are still anti-european mainly because of Putin's propaganda.

Secondly,by saying i am european nationalist i mean i love european cultures and nations,and think of their interrest.I see the EU as good for european nations and cultures,although i don't agree with some of the EU's decisions like the ones you mentioned considering Turkey and Marocco.

Thirdly, i don't think the U.S. is trying to provoke another Cold War by deploying anti-rocket shield,but to expand it's anti-russian influence in Europe,which i think is good for Poland and Europe as a whole.

And finally, i don't wan't to sound as some racist,schouvinist russian-hater!I have communicated with lots of russians and have nothing against them.I am against the russian politicians,which i believe are trying to make this european nation non-european,using anti-european and anti-western propaganda.

You are confused.

Russia has never been "anti-European" but infact they have been "anti-West" and no, not "West" in the sense of true Western European civilisation, but "West" in the artificial neo-Con, American construct.

I can understand why a Polak wouldn't like Russia. I, nor anyone else, is telling you to like them. But when you're hatred becomes so perverse that you advocate dangerous threats to Europe - America, EU - then we have conflict, as you put your own personal hatred for Russians over Europe and Europes saftey.

[Aptrgangr]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

The two world wars,as all other european wars were caused due to the fact that europeans were not united and everybody tought only about their own countries and not Europe as a whole.With the EU european countries won't foght each other over land as they did in the past.

The long periods of peace between European nations are also evidence against sovereignity?
I am all against war in Europe, still the European Union militarily meddles everywhere in the world, in Africa, in Arabia, in Asia. It's simply not our business to fight wars there, we have no right to violently meddle in other peoples' affairs.
Just look who created exploitative empires like Great Britain, and just have a look how this policy is continued - of course, politicans say interventions must be carried out in favour of "human-rights", 18/19th century imperialism was more honest but not much different from today's imperialism.

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

Poland had other ethnic borders

No ethnic borders would be precise

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

before the nazis and the communists comminted genocide and mass deportation.

What did the Poles (i.e. Polish govt.) do with Ruthenians and Ukrainians before Communists and Nazis came around?

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

Original ethinc borders included West Belarus and West Ukraine.Today however it is different and the past can't be changed.

Agreed, I am not keen into having a border-issue with Poland. Still we must face the fact liberal democrats promote the "heterogenization" of indigenous people. At the same time wortheless "human-right's courts" and other rubbish is etablished by them...

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

And what bad do you see in Europe being strong military?

An army and a militia to protect borders and neutrality for each sovereign European nation.
I do not want to see Europeans die for the interests of foreign stock market speculants and multiculturalist lunatics. Liberal-democracy is today's fascist imperialism.

[Musaka]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

Firstly,Russia might be geographically and genetically european,but it has always acted against the european nations by enslaving many of them and commiting genocide.HOwever even if we forget history and aim at today's situation russians are still anti-european mainly because of Putin's propaganda.

Secondly,by saying i am european nationalist i mean i love european cultures and nations,and think of their interrest.I see the EU as good for european nations and cultures,although i don't agree with some of the EU's decisions like the ones you mentioned considering Turkey and Marocco.

Thirdly, i don't think the U.S. is trying to provoke another Cold War by deploying anti-rocket shield,but to expand it's anti-russian influence in Europe,which i think is good for Poland and Europe as a whole.

And finally, i don't wan't to sound as some racist,schouvinist russian-hater!I have communicated with lots of russians and have nothing against them.I am against the russian politicians,which i believe are trying to make this european nation non-european,using anti-european and anti-western propaganda.

?!?!?They were always agains Europe?!?!?!?Please,remind me,please,who liberated Europe from Nazi Germany?!?!Who had the biggest cassulties in WWII?! Maybe your beloved Americans?!?!Russians had had 27 millions of cassulties in WWII and 20 millions of them were soldiers who were fighting for liberation of their motherland and the rest of Europe..Russians were that hammer which smacked into peaces Nazi German state..Beside Russia,only country which had front fights agains them were Yugoslavia,Serbian and Croats partisans together..and i think that Putin is one of Russian politicians who always supported Europe and partnership with EU...Economical partnership between Russia and the rest of Europe started when Putin came on Russian political scene,not before..well,not in size like it is today..Before Putin,there was Jelcin who didnt give a damn about his country or Europe,or Eu and before him SSSR and Cold war...Putin is one of the best leader that Russia had in recent history and saying that he is going to ruin the rest of the world..umm,,no comment..

[Delbáeth]

Wladyslaw - what did these people die for?

British troops in Afghanistan: 106 dead - Telegraph

The death of four British soldiers - including a woman - in a roadside bomb in southern Afghanistan represents the largest single loss of life since September 2006.

[Wladyslaw Warnenczyk]

Originally Posted by BeliAndjeo

?!?!?They were always agains Europe?!?!?!?Please,remind me,please,who liberated Europe from Nazi Germany?!?!Who had the biggest cassulties in WWII?! Maybe your beloved Americans?!?!Russians had had 27 millions of cassulties in WWII and 20 millions of them were soldiers who were fighting for liberation of their motherland and the rest of Europe..Russians were that hammer which smacked into peaces Nazi German state..Beside Russians,only country which had front fights agains them were Yugoslavia,Serbian and Croats partisans together..and i think that Putin is one of Russian politicians who always supported Europe and partnership with EU...Economical partnership between Russia and the rest of Europe started when Putin came on Russian political scene,not before..well,not in size like it is today..Before Putin,there was Jelcin who didnt give a damn about his country or Europe,or Eu and before him SSSR and Cold war...Putin is one of the best leader that Russia had in recent history and saying that he is going to ruin the rest of the world..umm,,no comment..

What?!It was the russians who STARTED the second world war WITH their ALLIES - the nazis,by signig the Molotov-Ribentrop pact and invading Poland TOGETHER.The russians started conquering the baltic states,eastern Europe and Finland while the nazis were doing the same in western Europe.The second world war was a product of BOTH germans and russians.In the end the ALLIES fought each other and soviets "liberated" land they had previously invaded besides the nazis.And what was this "liberation" - 40 years of communist ENSLAVEMENT,which caused todays poverty it Eastern Europe.So as a whole the russians did the most anti-european thing by supporting Hitler in the beggining of the war and than enslaving Eastern Europe and commiting genocides and mass murders ( KATYN).

[Musaka]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

What?!It was the russians who STARTED the second world war WITH their ALLIES - the nazis,by signig the Molotov-Ribentrop pact and invading Poland TOGETHER.The russians started conquering the baltic states,eastern Europe and Finland while the nazis were doing the same in western Europe.The second world war was a product of BOTH germans and russians.In the end the ALLIES fought each other and soviets "liberated" land they had previously invaded besides the nazis.And what was this "liberation" - 40 years of communist ENSLAVEMENT,which caused todays poverty it Eastern Europe.So as a whole the russians did the most anti-european thing by supporting Hitler in the beggining of the war and than enslaving Eastern Europe and commiting genocides and mass murders ( KATYN).

Yes, they signed that pact,like Yugoslav goverment with Cvetkovic-Machek when signed protocol of joining Nazis on 25th march 1941 and few days later,they were overthrow and general Dushan Simovic took their place..few days after that,on 6th april,on Easter,Nazis bombed Belgrade with terrifying devestation..They killed around 20.000 of its citizens from approximetly 300.000..Yes,they did it,like SSSR did,but they were tricked,like Yugoslav goverment..WWII started because of German nationalism and neo-kolonialism,because they wanted to change Treaty of Versailles,which Germany was kept under blockade. It declared Germany responsible for the war and required Germany to pay enormous war reparations and award territory to the victors. Unable to pay them with exports (a result of territorial losses and postwar recession), she did so by borrowing from the United States, until the reparations were suspended in 1931. The "Guilt Thesis" became a controversial explanation of events in Britain and the United States. The Treaty of Versailles caused enormous bitterness in Germany, which nationalist movements, especially the Nazis, exploited with a conspiracy theory they called the Dolchstosslegende. The treaty contributed to economic collapse of the them..
World War I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Musaka]

ANd,by the way.the biggest victims of Soviet dictatorship were Russians themself..Stalin killed in "gulags" morew then 50 million of it's own people,so it wasnt Russians who enslaved your nation and the rest of East Europe,it was Soviet goverment,so stop accusing Russian people for everything the worst on this Earth and in Europe..Mate,you are full of hate toward Russians,even more then Serbs and Croats and BOsnians are,and we sufferd more then you will ever!!!You are talking about love among Europian nations..I didnt see in any your post love,tolerance..You want to know what is tolerance?Look who is trying to explain you some things: Patricius,who is Croat,Aptrgangr,who is German and me,and i am Serb!!If you know history,you would know what kind of things we were doing to each other!!!!Well,mate,that is tolerance and things you are talking about has nothing with it!!!!THink about it!!!

[Wladyslaw Warnenczyk]

Originally Posted by BeliAndjeo

Yes, they signed that pact,like Yugoslav goverment with Cvetkovic-Machek when signed protocol of joining Nazis on 25th march 1941 and few days later,they were overthrow and general Dushan Simovic took their place..few days after that,on 6th april,on Easter,Nazis bombed Belgrade with terrifying devestation..They killed around 20.000 of its citizens from approximetly 300.000..Yes,they did it,like SSSR did,but they were tricked,like Yugoslav goverment..WWII started because of German nationalism and neo-kolonialism,because they wanted to change Treaty of Versailles,which Germany was kept under blockade. It declared Germany responsible for the war and required Germany to pay enormous war reparations and award territory to the victors. Unable to pay them with exports (a result of territorial losses and postwar recession), she did so by borrowing from the United States, until the reparations were suspended in 1931. The "Guilt Thesis" became a controversial explanation of events in Britain and the United States. The Treaty of Versailles caused enormous bitterness in Germany, which nationalist movements, especially the Nazis, exploited with a conspiracy theory they called the Dolchstosslegende. The treaty contributed to economic collapse of the them..
World War I - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The soviet union was not tricked and than realised it's mistake,it signed the pact and than occupied many countries as the nazis did.They fought the nazis ONLY because they were attacked by them,not because they wanted to liberate Europe.USSR is not better than Third Reich,Stalin is not better than Hitler.

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

The soviet union was not tricked and than realised it's mistake,it signed the pact and than occupied many countries as the nazis did.They fought the nazis ONLY because they were attacked by them,not because they wanted to liberate Europe.USSR is not better than Third Reich,Stalin is not better than Hitler.

But the fact is, if anyone really has a right to complain about Russian government at that time - it would be Russians - as they are the ones who suffered most.

[Wladyslaw Warnenczyk]

Originally Posted by Patricius

But the fact is, if anyone really has a right to complain about Russian government at that time - it would be Russians - as they are the ones who suffered most.

It wasn't marsians who served the dommunist regime and murdered innocent russians - it was other russians who murdered their own countrymen,so they have nothing to complaint about - it was russians murdering russians but also russians murdering poles,lithuanians,ukrainians,germans and many other nations.

[Delbáeth]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

It wasn't marsians who served the dommunist regime and murdered innocent russians - it was other russians who murdered their own countrymen,so they have nothing to complaint about - it was russians murdering russians but also russians murdering poles,lithuanians,ukrainians,germans and many other nations.

They have every right to complain! It doesn't matter who was behind the massacare.

They put their trust in a government, and that government betrayed them. I believe they have a right to complain about that. Especially since it was their own people who perpetrated the actions.

Whilst I remember - You have several times attempted to discredit Crvena zvezda's opinions on the grounds of his being a Serbian and therefore must "love MotherRussia" and therefore his opinions are "biased and unimportant." Well I quite frankly think that your opinions are biased and based on nothing but blind hatred, and that you are willing to put your hatred before the interests of your people and Europe.

[Musaka]

Originally Posted by Wladyslaw Warnenczyk

The soviet union was not tricked and than realised it's mistake,it signed the pact and than occupied many countries as the nazis did.They fought the nazis ONLY because they were attacked by them,not because they wanted to liberate Europe.USSR is not better than Third Reich,Stalin is not better than Hitler.

No,Stalin never wanted to believe they are going to attack them and comparing Nazis and Hitler with Soviet nations and Stalin only shows what kind of person you are..Nazis commited the worste genocides this world ever seen and Stalin's only mistake was he was too stupid to see with who he is making an agreement,but afterall he corrected it,by destroying them into pieces...He was dictator who almost destroyed his OWN nation..Do you think he cared about others when he was killing like chickens his OWN!?!? You are trying to say that Germans and Russians were Hitler and Stalin?! HAve you ever heard for dead squads?DO you know what have they done? Killing their own units who didnt wont to obbey commands..Trust me,there were a lot of German soldiers,same as Russian soldiers who were killed because they didnt wont to kill civilians..Try to find something about German soldier who was killed together with Serbian kids in Kragujevac because he didnt wont to kill them...There is only INDIVIDUAL responsibil