National Museum of Wales goes Islamic!

[Routasydän]

What's about the dirty pervert thing?

Blowjobgate, a lá Clinton. Except this was more like rape. Of ten women or something.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Cymro

Firstly Susi I couldn't care less what you think of my English grammer, if that's all you can pick up on then my arguments must be doing something right.

No, I'm just a grammar nazi.

I cannot stand bad grammar and spelling. It doesn't make your points any more right. It just means that I have PMS.

Now then, the Celts who once roamed most of the British Isles where Pagans, they believed in a series of gods who where elements of nature.

FOR THE LAST BLOODY TIME, PAGANISM IS NOT ONE RELIGION.

... And learn a little bit about Celtic mythos before you go saying all the gods were elements of nature.

We where not Christians. Christianity was a religion founded in the Middle East and exported here through armies and conquests. So it is in essence a foreign religion. On the other hand Islam is not doing this - despite the claims of the loonies.

Where: Question word for location
were: verb, conjugation of "to be"

I am not a one dollar coin.

Have you even read Mynydd's post on this issue? At all?

Canada is a member of NATO, NATO is a military alliance who's fundamental belief is that each member play a part. Now, I'm sure I don't need to explain to you that there is a lot more involved in a military campaign than soldiers. The UK and the US lead the campaign against Serbian troops in Kosovo, but the French, the Germans, the Canadians all played some part. Look it up.

Tell me what part they played. By saying "look it up" you indicate that you know nothing at all on the issue.

I can also assure you that childrens brains are far far more able to take in a new language that those of adults and it has nothing to do with your accent. Your accent is important, but that does not effect your ability to speak languages.

*sigh* You're not listening to me.

Accent influences pronounciation. If you're not speaking the language, fine, but most people learn a language to speak it. So the tongue is very important. The sound for "ch" in English and German are radically different tongue movements. If you want to speak a language, you need to speak it right.

So stop being an ignorant fool.

There are professors who know a lot more than both you or I do about these things that have proven that childrens brains are like sponges and can take information in a lot better than those of children. Again look it up if you refute it - a good place to start would be that of the Welsh Language Board.

Children would prefer to play than to learn. At least most of them.

If you go to Saudi Arabia you live by their laws. Here in the UK and I'm pretty certain in Canada too you have muslims living under our laws. You get groups who want Sharia Law in our countries. but you get a lot more who don't.

Eventually if Muslims become a majority, Sharia law will become the law.

Your family in moving to Canada have taken part in the colonialism of the land once lived on by native Americans. So you are not really in a position to start having a go at people who move to Canada from say Iran and do the same thing are you?

Ad hominems are logically fallacious.

Luckily, most the immigrants who move to Canada become part of modern day Canada and don't wish to force another way of life on the other people - shame the Europeans didn't do the same for the natives when they moved over eh?

*rolls eyes* You're European.

Originally Posted by Cymro

So this is the level of maturity and intelligent debate we have on this site is it? Jesus was an Arab.

No, he was a Jew.

Surely this site has rules against biggots making such racist comments?

Maybe you should read the rules.

Hold on, what do non Religions people think then? If I let my religion rule my life I wouldn't havre sex before marriage, I wouldn't agree with abortion, I wouldn't oppose the Death Sentence, I wouldn't believe that women are equal to men, I wouldn't believe that Sunday should be spent in Chapel (or Church), and I wouldn't accept homosexuality etc etc.

It depends what part of the chuch you mean. Some churches are more liberal than others and do not hold these views.

However I am of the belief that racism and biggotry is wrong, whther its' perptuated by a White Christian living in Beligium and playing the hardman on a website, or a Islamic Extremists living in Iraq who hates all non Muslims.

And Jesus was born in the Middle East, he was an Arab!

Jew!

Jewish people regard themselves as "The chosen people". That implies race.

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

The mere fact that you are still allowed to post proves that we aren't biggots.

<3

[M.R.]

Originally Posted by Cymro

... Jesus was Arab, Jews are religion...

Jews are an ethnicity (or race if you will), Judaism is just part of their identity, it's their religion - you see, only Jews can follow Judaism, unlike Christianity and Islam.

[Cymro]

Right, Susi (again)

Quote:
Now then, the Celts who once roamed most of the British Isles where Pagans, they believed in a series of gods who where elements of nature.
FOR THE LAST BLOODY TIME, PAGANISM IS NOT ONE RELIGION.

... And learn a little bit about Celtic mythos before you go saying all the gods were elements of nature.

Celts where Pagans. BPlease tell me where I said Paganism was one Religion. I am a Christian, doesn't mean I say Christianity is all one and the same.

Christianity was a 'foreign' religion imported into the British Isles.

Quote:
Canada is a member of NATO, NATO is a military alliance who's fundamental belief is that each member play a part. Now, I'm sure I don't need to explain to you that there is a lot more involved in a military campaign than soldiers. The UK and the US lead the campaign against Serbian troops in Kosovo, but the French, the Germans, the Canadians all played some part. Look it up.
Tell me what part they played. By saying "look it up" you indicate that you know nothing at all on the issue.

Oh ok as you obviously can't bring yourself to do so.

Off the NATO website:

On September 12, 2001, the North Atlantic Council for the first time invoked Article 5 of the Washington Treaty. This pledge of collective defence requires NATO members to assist in responding to any armed attack on another ally in Europe or North America. Several NATO members—including Canada—pledged direct military support to the campaign against terrorism shortly thereafter.

Happy now Susi. Maybe you need to learn a few things about what that country of yours is up to eh?

*sigh* You're not listening to me.

Accent influences pronounciation. If you're not speaking the language, fine, but most people learn a language to speak it. So the tongue is very important. The sound for "ch" in English and German are radically different tongue movements. If you want to speak a language, you need to speak it right.

So stop being an ignorant fool.

Oh I'm ingorant now am I? Sorry you havent goe the faintest clue about lingusitics if you think these are the thingsa that go on. I speak Welsh, I have a Welsh accent. However put me in an English speaking place and I speak English just as well as anyone. I still have a Welsh accent though. I can also speak some French - I doubt very much I speak it with a pure Frnech Accent.

Childrens brains take in information. It is far easier to introduce other languages to a child than an adult. If a Child learnt Welsh for one year and at the same time an Adult was doing the same the child will have learnt a lot more.

Children may well profer playing to working, but that is what child education is all about - they actually learn through play Susi! And it actually works very very well.

Eventually if Muslims become a majority, Sharia law will become the law.

Scaremongering. Have you asked every Muslim this? Pojnt 1 - they wont become a majority here. Point 2 - not all of them, not even a majority want Sharia Law. Most believe it or not just want to kive their own lives and not face harrassement, from narrow minded biggots.

Do you not accept your family is a family of immigrants? Well sorry, you are from a family of immigrants, they left the UK to further colonies a land which white people where not native too. You may well call yourself Canadian which is fine. But why then can't say Abdul who's parents moved to Toronto from Iran also call himself Canadian?

It depends what part of the chuch you mean. Some churches are more liberal than others and do not hold these views.

Correct, and the same goes for Islam too. Some of them are far more Liberal than others. The Bible though says negative things about women etc, and so does the Quran and probably every other religious text in the world.

Jew!

Jewish people regard themselves as "The chosen people". That implies race.

In Israel there is actually a group of Ethnic Arabs who are Jewish. Jews can be Arabs, and the Bible is full of them, including dear old Jesus himself!


Promotheus, Islam is fine here in Wales, alongside other religions and agnostincs. I couldn't careless about religion. It takes more to make a person good or evil.

Mynydd, I have answered all posts. If not directly too you then to others.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Cymro

Right, Susi (again)

*yawnnnn*

Celts where Pagans. BPlease tell me where I said Paganism was one Religion. I am a Christian, doesn't mean I say Christianity is all one and the same.

Already told you this:

Where: Question for place. I.e.: Where is the butter? Where are my keys? Where is Wales?

were: past conjugation of "To be". I.e. They were in the park. We were going to go to Spain but our flight was cancelled.

Combination: Where were they? They were in the park.

Anyways.

Using the word "Pagan" and "Paganism" implies a homogenity that I dislike.

Happy now Susi. Maybe you need to learn a few things about what that country of yours is up to eh?

Thank you.

But this happened 6 years ago when I was 11 years old and not as well informed.

Oh I'm ingorant now am I? Sorry you havent goe the faintest clue about lingusitics if you think these are the thingsa that go on. I speak Welsh, I have a Welsh accent. However put me in an English speaking place and I speak English just as well as anyone. I still have a Welsh accent though. I can also speak some French - I doubt very much I speak it with a pure Frnech Accent.

This is like talking to a wall.

My German teacher has said "it is not important" to learn the accent, but it is still good to.

Once you have learned the tongue movements they become second nature and you switch between them. This is why my "ch" in German is not like my "ch" or in English nor like my "ch" in French. They are completely different movements. (Similar to the "r"). I have worked very hard to get rid of my accent when speaking German. And I've been learning French from the age of 7, so I don't think I have any accent of the English type but of the Quebecois type.

Childrens brains take in information. It is far easier to introduce other languages to a child than an adult. If a Child learnt Welsh for one year and at the same time an Adult was doing the same the child will have learnt a lot more.p

What I don't like is how you resign adults to stupidity. Adults can learn just as well as children, if not better.

Children may well profer playing to working, but that is what child education is all about - they actually learn through play Susi! And it actually works very very well.

... When I was a child, we did work. I learned through this, though I would have rather played.

Scaremongering. Have you asked every Muslim this? Pojnt 1 - they wont become a majority here. Point 2 - not all of them, not even a majority want Sharia Law. Most believe it or not just want to kive their own lives and not face harrassement, from narrow minded biggots.

Seeing as I'm also on a spelling rant: Bigot.

*yawns*

There are many extremists. Yes, the moderate Muslim may not want these things to happen, but they may.

Do you not accept your family is a family of immigrants? Well sorry, you are from a family of immigrants, they left the UK to further colonies a land which white people where not native too. You may well call yourself Canadian which is fine. But why then can't say Abdul who's parents moved to Toronto from Iran also call himself Canadian?

No, I don't accept it. Because I'm going back to England. Oh wait, does that make me an immigrant? Oh no! I'm stuck in this kind of paradox, aren't I? Oh help me wise Cyrmo! Most of my family is in England. That is where I feel most at home.

Just because I have light skin doesn't make me some kind of devil who pushes the Native people out of their land! My ancestors certainly didn't do this, since they were all living in the British Isles at the time.

If you were listening before, I said Canada is an "immigrant country" by nature. It doesn't have its own culture really.

Correct, and the same goes for Islam too. Some of them are far more Liberal than others. The Bible though says negative things about women etc, and so does the Quran and probably every other religious text in the world.

You know, not every religious text says negative things about women.

Havamal:

89.
Now plainly I speak, since both I have seen;
unfaithful is man to maid;
we speak them fairest when thoughts are falsest
and wile the wisest of hearts.
90.
-- Let him speak soft words and offer wealth
who longs for a woman's love,
praise the shape of the shining maid --
he wins who thus doth woo.

In Israel there is actually a group of Ethnic Arabs who are Jewish. Jews can be Arabs, and the Bible is full of them, including dear old Jesus himself!

You're bad at listening.

Jesus was Jewish. As in Hebrew. As in not Arabic.

Yes, people can convert to Judaism. But it's a long and arduous process to become, in a manner a member of the "chosen people" (i.e. race)

Promotheus, Islam is fine here in Wales, alongside other religions and agnostincs. I couldn't careless about religion. It takes more to make a person good or evil.

The question is what does that person consider to be good or evil, not what makes them good or evil, because that would be our subjective opinion.

[Cymro]

Susi Susi Susi.

I couldn't care less about your silly little attempt at improving my spelling. Spelling is an issue for me, if you really want to be a smart arse care to do it via PM please as it has no bareing on the debate in question.

Right, I never said Adults where stupid, maybe if I need a lesson in spelling someone else needs a lesson in reading eh? Children are just more able to learn languages and take in facts because of the nature of the child brain compared to that of an adult.

Your German Teacher was right to say an accent is important, its an important part of pronounciation etc. But that does not change the point which you tried to counter prove. A childs ability to learn language comes from the fact the brain is rather like a spongue and is able to soak in information, often involntarily. An adult brain is rather more rigid and therefore takes more of an effort to lean a language.

Canada does indeed have a culture, it's just certain people choose to ignore it. It also has another culture lying next to it which is far more recent - the European descended one mainly the imposition of the English and French languages on vast areas. Even if your family only moved to Canada last week, that is still participating in the colonisation of a land, you don't have to like it, it's just a fact. How is them immigrating to Canada, any different to say an Iranian moving to Canada?

Regarding Jesus, I am willing to accept he may not have been 'Arabic' after reading the posts of Caesar and Wilpuri, but to claim he was in someway white, which was what the point Behelit was making. He almost certainly would have been or Arabic appearance. And my point that an Arab does not have to be a Muslim is still an important fact that certain people on here are unwilling to accept. As I said, Arabic people can also be found worshipping Christianity and Judaism amongst other things.


I find it brilliant that people on here feel all this is relevent in trying to defend the racism which began this whole thread off, and why I posted on here in the first place. A Museum in Wales has everyright to have displays on Islam, Muslims live here, and may other people are interested in cultures, religion and countries. The Museum of Welsh Life (part of the same body) does a brilliant job of promoting Welsh history, and a display looking at Islam across the world, and hopefully looking at Islam in Wales is certainly a good thing, even if it justs helps in informing the uninformed here in Wales who like many on here are unwilling to recognise the presence of Islam in Wales for many many years.

The one Welshperson who supported the thread on here proved to have very little awareness of Welsh culture anyway so is hardly in a position to criticise Immigrants for having lack of awareness in Welsh way of life and culture!

[Caesar Princeps]

Originally Posted by Cymro

As I said, Arabic people can also be found worshipping Christianity and Judaism amongst other things

Never said it is not possible. Judaist Arabs are but very few; anyway there are several Christian Arabs in Lebanon, Syria, Palestina, Egypt, Iraq, even though I think that most Christians descended from pre-Arab Semitic populations who conserved their faith (Copts, Syrians, Chaldaics). I agree with you if you are saying that Jesus could well have had (for what we know about His appearance) a Semitic outlook.

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Cymro

Susi Susi Susi.

Cyrmo, Cyrmo, Cymro.

I couldn't care less about your silly little attempt at improving my spelling. Spelling is an issue for me, if you really want to be a smart arse care to do it via PM please as it has no bareing on the debate in question.

It isn't so much a question of spelling as it is a question of mixing up two words that have completely different meanings...

Right, I never said Adults where stupid, maybe if I need a lesson in spelling someone else needs a lesson in reading eh? Children are just more able to learn languages and take in facts because of the nature of the child brain compared to that of an adult.

... I absolutely hate being told that I'm stupid.

If children are so good at learning, why don't any of them go for a doctorate right away?

Your German Teacher was right to say an accent is important, its an important part of pronounciation etc. But that does not change the point which you tried to counter prove. A childs ability to learn language comes from the fact the brain is rather like a spongue and is able to soak in information, often involntarily. An adult brain is rather more rigid and therefore takes more of an effort to lean a language.

... You should type more slowly so as not to make as many mistakes. But anyways.

Adults are perfectly capable of learning languages, yes, I know, you imply this...

But there is no difficulty for me to learn a language. I find it easy. And I'm an adult, physically, at least, if not legally. So why is it so much easier for me to learn a language as compared to my younger peers?

Canada does indeed have a culture, it's just certain people choose to ignore it. It also has another culture lying next to it which is far more recent - the European descended one mainly the imposition of the English and French languages on vast areas.

Ignore what culture? It's a mixture of a bunch of different cultures. There isn't one culture. Go to Chinatown in Montreal and the culture is primarily Chinese, then go to a French restaurant, the culture is primarily French. Go to the Italian part, Italian culture. Et cetera. It's just a big huge mixture.

Are you sure you know all about the history of Canada?

Even if your family only moved to Canada last week, that is still participating in the colonisation of a land, you don't have to like it, it's just a fact.

If my family moved to Canada only last week, I wouldn't be here talking about it. I wouldn't be born.

How is them immigrating to Canada, any different to say an Iranian moving to Canada?

... you haven't really read what I've said either. Canada is an "immigrant country". People are from all over. Much more than your little country, or, part of the UK. Like I said: It is an immigrant country: therefore, I can't do much about it. I didn't chose to come here. My parents did. I wasn't even born.

Regarding Jesus, I am willing to accept he may not have been 'Arabic' after reading the posts of Caesar and Wilpuri, but to claim he was in someway white, which was what the point Behelit was making.

If you haven't noticed (seeing as you don't post on the rest of the forum, you'd prefer to make stupid arguments here), Behelit has been banned for obscene language. Just a note.

And I don't think his contention regarding Jesus was really that of anyone else here.

He almost certainly would have been or Arabic appearance. And my point that an Arab does not have to be a Muslim is still an important fact that certain people on here are unwilling to accept. As I said, Arabic people can also be found worshipping Christianity and Judaism amongst other things.

You know Moses? Yeah? That guy who led the Jews out of Egypt? You know, because they were being oppressed by the Egyptian pharoh?.... They went away from Egypt and ended up around Israel, as I recall. (Well modern day Israel)...

Or did they not teach this to you?

See Caesar Princeps' post.

I find it brilliant that people on here feel all this is relevent in trying to defend the racism which began this whole thread off, and why I posted on here in the first place.

.. Aptrgangr didn't even write the article, I'm sure as you know.

A Museum in Wales has everyright to have displays on Islam, Muslims live here, and may other people are interested in cultures, religion and countries.

If the museum is about Wales, why talk about something foreign?

The Museum of Welsh Life (part of the same body) does a brilliant job of promoting Welsh history, and a display looking at Islam across the world, and hopefully looking at Islam in Wales is certainly a good thing, even if it justs helps in informing the uninformed here in Wales who like many on here are unwilling to recognise the presence of Islam in Wales for many many years.

Why don't you ram other cultures down the throats of the general populace?

Here! Tolerate this minority! OMIGOSH! Don't be racist! Women, wear your hiquab, or else you'll be beaten!

The one Welshperson who supported the thread on here proved to have very little awareness of Welsh culture anyway so is hardly in a position to criticise Immigrants for having lack of awareness in Welsh way of life and culture!

Whom would this be? Chauntecleer?

[Llywarch Hen]

Originally Posted by Cymro

A Museum in Wales has everyright to have displays on Islam, Muslims live here, and may other people are interested in cultures, religion and countries. The Museum of Welsh Life (part of the same body) does a brilliant job of promoting Welsh history, and a display looking at Islam across the world, and hopefully looking at Islam in Wales is certainly a good thing, even if it justs helps in informing the uninformed here in Wales who like many on here are unwilling to recognise the presence of Islam in Wales for many many years.

I hope they have some good multimedia exhibits like this;

+ YouTube Video

YouTube - Dispatches - Undercover Mosque (1 of 6)

[Cymro]

Quote:
Right, I never said Adults where stupid, maybe if I need a lesson in spelling someone else needs a lesson in reading eh? Children are just more able to learn languages and take in facts because of the nature of the child brain compared to that of an adult.
... I absolutely hate being told that I'm stupid.

If children are so good at learning, why don't any of them go for a doctorate right away?

Who said you are stupid? Though, with this particular part of the thread you are doing a pretty good attempt at looking it I must admit. A PHD is a result of years of learning - from childhood onwards. A childs brain is far more able to take information in (and keep it in) than that of an adult live with it. It is a biological fact accepted by people across the globe though you refuse to accept this though.

Adults are perfectly capable of learning languages, yes, I know, you imply this...

But there is no difficulty for me to learn a language. I find it easy. And I'm an adult, physically, at least, if not legally. So why is it so much easier for me to learn a language as compared to my younger peers?

Basically you may find languages easy, but say it's taken you 3 years to get where you are now with German, it would have taken you less to get to that standard had you been a bit younger. It's the same reason why you will often see the children of immigrants able to speak the native language fluently but the parents unable to do so.

It's accepted that the best time to begin learning languages (you never stop learning) is when you are a child because children are more sustepable to take the information in, and importantly - they don't question thing either i.e. why does the structure of sentences differing from language to language, children tend to just accept it and learn it as it is.

Hope that (finally) makes some sense to you.

Quote:
Canada does indeed have a culture, it's just certain people choose to ignore it. It also has another culture lying next to it which is far more recent - the European descended one mainly the imposition of the English and French languages on vast areas.
Ignore what culture? It's a mixture of a bunch of different cultures. There isn't one culture. Go to Chinatown in Montreal and the culture is primarily Chinese, then go to a French restaurant, the culture is primarily French. Go to the Italian part, Italian culture. Et cetera. It's just a big huge mixture.

Are you sure you know all about the history of Canada?

Erm let me think, Chinese culture - immigrant culture, French Restaurant - Immigrant culture, Italian parts - Immigrant culture. How about the Native American population living in your country long before Europeans came and changed everything? How many Canadians of European decent have tried to intergrate themselves into the native way of life? And how exactly is this different to say a person from Iran moving to Canada and keeping their own National Identity?

Canda was established as it is by Immigrants, but natives live in that state too, Canda wasn't deserted when it was colonised unlike places like Bermuda. But Wales for over 200 years has seen immigration from across the globe due to the Industrial Revoluton and the fact South Wales especially saw huge developments thanks to Steel and Coal - the population in Tiger Bay in Cardiff is a good example of this. The people of Tiger Bay though, despite being of Somali, and African Carribbean decent regard themselves as Welsh first and formost.

Quote:
Regarding Jesus, I am willing to accept he may not have been 'Arabic' after reading the posts of Caesar and Wilpuri, but to claim he was in someway white, which was what the point Behelit was making.
If you haven't noticed (seeing as you don't post on the rest of the forum, you'd prefer to make stupid arguments here), Behelit has been banned for obscene language. Just a note.

And I don't think his contention regarding Jesus was really that of anyone else here.

Thats because this is the one thread which I want to respond to Susi and also the area I was told to visit by a member who PMd me on another message board.

You know Moses? Yeah? That guy who led the Jews out of Egypt? You know, because they were being oppressed by the Egyptian pharoh?.... They went away from Egypt and ended up around Israel, as I recall. (Well modern day Israel)...

Or did they not teach this to you?

See Caesar Princeps' post.

And?

Quote:
I find it brilliant that people on here feel all this is relevent in trying to defend the racism which began this whole thread off, and why I posted on here in the first place.
.. Aptrgangr didn't even write the article, I'm sure as you know.

Did I say he did? Nope. He and others like yourself posted in support of the claim that the National Museum of Wales shouldn't have done this. Which is quite honestly daft.

Quote:
A Museum in Wales has everyright to have displays on Islam, Muslims live here, and may other people are interested in cultures, religion and countries.
If the museum is about Wales, why talk about something foreign?

Sorry, but since when have Museums only been obliged to teach Native things? I think there is an important responsibility to teach people of our own history and culture - the National Museum do this, and also of other cultures and religions which are here in Wales and across the globe - i.e. Islam in Wales. Even if it just goes part of the way to educating people about religion and diversity as opposed to fearing what you don't understand.

As I said at the beginnig of this thread, the same museum has displays some time ago on Dinosaurs found across the world, should we have only learnt about our own dinosaurs?

Why don't you ram other cultures down the throats of the general populace?

Here! Tolerate this minority! OMIGOSH! Don't be racist! Women, wear your hiquab, or else you'll be beaten!

Hmm, nice and mature!

Quote:
The one Welshperson who supported the thread on here proved to have very little awareness of Welsh culture anyway so is hardly in a position to criticise Immigrants for having lack of awareness in Welsh way of life and culture!
Whom would this be? Chauntecleer?

Correct!