|
|
|||||||
| Register | Blogs | FAQ | Forum Rules | VB Image Host | Members List | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read |
| Brythonic Brezhoneg, Cymraeg, Kernowek, etc. |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
Brythonic languages
Brythonic languages The Brythonic languages (or Brittonic languages) form one of the two branches of the Insular Celtic language family. The name Brythonic is derived from the Welsh word Brython, meaning an indigenous Briton as opposed to an Anglo-Saxon or Gael. The Brythonic branch is also referred to as P-Celtic because the Brythonic reflex of the Proto-Indo-European phoneme *kw is p as opposed to the Goidelic c. Such nomenclature usually implies an acceptance of the P-Celtic hypothesis rather than the Insular Celtic hypothesis (for a discussion, see Celtic languages). The major Brythonic languages are Welsh and Breton, both of which survive as community languages today. The Cornish language died out at the end of the eighteenth century, but was successfully revived in the twentieth. Also notable are the extinct language Cumbric, and possibly the extinct Pictish (although the late Kenneth H. Jackson argued during the 1950s, from some of the few remaining examples of Pictish, that Pictish was a non-Indo-European language, the majority of modern scholars of Pictish do not agree). Classification The family tree of the Brythonic languages is as follows:
History and origins The modern Brythonic languages all derive from a common ancestral language termed British, Common Brythonic, Old Brythonic or Proto-Brythonic, which is thought to have developed from the Proto-Celtic language which was introduced to Britain from the middle second millennium BC (Hawkes, 1973). Brythonic languages were then spoken at least in the whole of Great Britain south of the rivers Forth and Clyde, presumably also including the Isle of Man. The theory has been advanced (notably by R. F. O'Rahilly) that Ireland was populated by speakers of Brythonic before being displaced by speakers of a Q-Celtic language (possibly from the Quarietii tribe of southern France), although the linguists Dillon and Chadwick reject this theory as being implausible. During the period of the Roman occupation of Britain (AD 43 to c. 410), Common Brythonic borrowed a large stock of Latin words, both for concepts unfamiliar in the pre-urban society of Celtic Britain such as tactics of warfare and urbanisation and rather more mundane words which displaced native terms (most notably, the word for "fish" in all the Brythonic languages derives from the Latin piscus rather the native *iskos). Approximately eight hundred of these Latin loan-words have survived in the three modern Brythonic languages. It is probable that during this period Common Brythonic was differentiated into at least two major dialect groups - Southwestern and Western (in addition we may posit additional dialects spoken in what is now England which have left little or no evidence). Between the end of the Roman occupation and the mid sixth century the two dialects began to diverge into recognisably separate languages, the Western into Cumbric and Welsh and the Southwestern into Cornish and its closely related sister language Breton, which was carried from the south of Britain to continental Armorica by refugees fleeing the Saxon invaders. The Brythonic languages spoken in Scotland, the Isle of Man and England were displaced at the same time by Goidelic and Old English speaking invaders. For the later history of the neo-Brythonic languages see under their own respective articles. Remnants in England and Scotland The principal legacy left behind in those territories from which the Brythonic languages were displaced is that of toponyms. Many of the place-names in England and to a lesser extent Scotland are derived (sometimes indirectly) from the Brythonic names, including London, Penicuik, Perth, York, Dorchester, Dover and Colchester. Several place-name elements are thought to be wholly or partly Brythonic in origin, particularly bre-, bal-, and -dun for hills, carr for a high rocky place, coomb for a small deep valley. Others reflect the presence of Brythons, such as Dumbarton. Until recently it has been believed that those areas settled by the Anglo-Saxons were uninhabited at the time or the Britons had fled before them. However, genetic studies show that the British were not pushed out to the Celtic fringes – many tribes remained in what was to become England[1]. These findings strengthen the research of Steven Bassett of the University of Birmingham; his work during the 1990s suggests that much of the West Midlands was only very lightly colonised with Anglian and Saxon settlements. It is generally accepted that linguistic effects on English were lexically rather poor aside from toponyms, consisting of a few domestic words, which may include hubbub, peat, bucket, crock, noggin, gob (c.f. Gaelic gob), nook; and the dialectal term for a badger, i.e. brock (c.f. Welsh broch, and Gaelic Broc). Arguably, the use of periphrastic constructions in the English verb (which is more widespread than in the other Germanic languages) is traceable to Brythonic influence. Some researchers argue that English syntax reflects more extensive Brythonic influences. For instance, in English tag questions, the form of the tag depends on the verb form in the main statement (aren't I?, isn't he?, won't we? etc). The German nicht wahr? and the French n'est ce pas?, by contrast, are fixed forms which can be used with almost any main statement. It has been claimed that the English system has been borrowed from Brythonic, since Welsh tag questions vary in almost exactly the same way. This view is far from being generally accepted, though, since it is equally possible that the Welsh construction is borrowed from English. Far more notable, but less well known, are the Brythonic influences on Scottish Gaelic which are many. Like English, periphrastic constructions have come to the fore, but to a much greater degree. Some important borrowings into Gaidhlig include Beinn meaning mountain, and anglicised "Ben", probably from the Brythonic pen meaning "Head". External links Ethnologue report for Brythonic languages References
Last edited by Youenn; Saturday, January 7th, 2006 at 16:30. 
|
|
Saturday, January 7th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re : Brythonic languages Cumbric
Sorry but I mistekenly added a word to my Brythonic languages. Could you take the word "cumbric" out of it ? Thank in advance !
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
For example Aberdeen, Aberfoyle, etc all contain the aber prefix which is found in place names all over Wales. I think I'm right in saying that the Inver prefix (such as in Inverness) is also Brythonic in origin? Quote:
Previous to this, it had an unrelated Latin name. Quote:
Quote:
__________________
The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
Check this for more information about Chester http://www.oldtowns.co.uk/Cheshire/chester.htm
__________________
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
Thanks for that 
__________________
The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
__________________
"Their trumpets again are of a peculiar barbarian kind; they blow into them and produce a harsh sound which suits the tumult of war"
Full PM Box...
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
Seems credible. Although in Irish it would be more like Dun na Lugh (Fort of Lugh) due to that Hamitic syntax 
__________________
The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Their trumpets again are of a peculiar barbarian kind; they blow into them and produce a harsh sound which suits the tumult of war"
Full PM Box...
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
|
|
Monday, January 9th, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
"Their trumpets again are of a peculiar barbarian kind; they blow into them and produce a harsh sound which suits the tumult of war"
Full PM Box...
|
|
Monday, April 3rd, 2006
|
|||
|
|||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
hey man, enough with the pole jokes!
|
|
Monday, April 3rd, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
__________________
The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
|
|
Monday, April 3rd, 2006
|
||||
|
||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
|
|
Tuesday, April 4th, 2006
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Re: Brythonic languages
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Eburacum > late vulgar Latin *Evurac- > Old Welsh Caer Efrog > Welsh Caer Efrawg and OE Eoforwic > ON Jorvik > York. Unbroken continuity! Quote:
Quote:
|
