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Sunday, January 9th, 2005
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Counting in Welsh
Continuing the introduction to the Welsh language (Cymraeg) trend, (aka. operation 'fill-up-the-Brythonic-forum'), a basic guide to Welsh numbers.
Welsh actualy has two counting systems, one old and one new. The old way involved counting in twenties sort of, rather like French (and Danish and others) does, or a Vigesimal counting system as it would be called (as opposed to decimal). But this was deemed awkward and difficult to learn, so about 2 centuries ago, a simpler decimal system was introduced, and now it predominates, though some still use the old way. So here we go (English pronunciation follows in brackets, where appropriate) 1 - Un (een) 2 - Dau (die) 3 - Tri (tree) 4 - Pedwar 5 - Pump (pimp) 6 - Chwech 7 - Saith 8 - Wyth (ooeeth) 9 - Naw (now) 10 - Deg From here on its a simple matter of adding the tens to the units, so instead of eleven, think one-ten-one; thirty three = three-ten-three; and so on. But pay attention to the 3 mutations: 20 - Dau ddeg (theg) 30 - Tri deg 40 - Pedwar deg 50 - Pum deg (pim deg)# 60 - Chwe deg 70 - Saith deg 80 - Wyth deg 90 - Naw deg So, 14 = Un-deg-pedwar, 23 = Dau-deg-tri, 56 = pum-deg-saith, and so on. From one hundred onwards the same basic rule applies, but again, note the mutation after dau: 100 - Cant (kant) 200 - Dau gant 300 - Tri cant 400 - Pedwar cant 500 - Pum cant 600 - Chwe cant 700 - Saith cant 800 - Wyth cant 900 - Naw cant 1000 - Mil (meal) 2000 - Dau fil (die veal) 3000 - Tri mil 4000 - Pedwar mil 5000 - Pum mil 6000 - Chwe mil 7000 - Saith mil etc.. So 112 = Un-cant-un-deg-dau 467 = Pedwar-cant-chwe-deg-saith 2548 = Dau-fil-pum-cant-pedwar-deg-wyth Above here my knowledge is iffy, but i'll update if at a later date should anyone feel the need to say 2,356,835 in Welsh. Admitably it seems a strange way of doing things, and some of the larger numbers can seem a mouthfull (but bare in mind a fluent speaker speaks quickly), but it has its advantages, as you will soon read in another thread. 
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Quote:
1 - Un (een)--Ena 2 - Dau (die)--Dio 3 - Tri (tree)--Tria 4 - Pedwar--Tessera 5 - Pump (pimp)--Pente 6 - Chwech--Exi 7 - Saith--Efta 8 - Wyth (ooeeth)-Ohto 9 - Naw (now)-Ennea 10 - Deg--Deka Indoeuropean is accurate when it is used as a linguistic term 
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
To continue with the Hindu-European counting system:
1 - Un (een)--Ena --Jedan 2 - Dau (die)--Dio --Dva 3 - Tri (tree)--Tria --Tri 4 - Pedwar--Tessera- Cetiri 5 - Pump (pimp)--Pente -Pet 6 - Chwech--Exi --Shest 7 - Saith--Efta --Sedam 8 - Wyth (ooeeth)-Ohto --Osam 9 - Naw (now)-Ennea --Devet 10 - Deg--Deka-- Deset
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Thank you, memsahib
 To continue with Irish added - 1 - Un (een)--Ena --Jedan -- Aon 2 - Dau (die)--Dio --Dva -- Dhá 3 - Tri (tree)--Tria --Tri -- Trí 4 - Pedwar--Tessera- Cetiri -- Ceithre 5 - Pump (pimp)--Pente -Pet -- Cúig 6 - Chwech--Exi --Shest -- Sé 7 - Saith--Efta --Sedam -- Seacht 8 - Wyth (ooeeth)-Ohto --Osam -- Ocht 9 - Naw (now)-Ennea --Devet -- Naoi 10 - Deg--Deka-- Deset -- Deich
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Quote:
 No.5 is interesting in highlighting the peculiarity of Q-Celtic, where we can see the Indo-European "p" sound exchanged for a "k" sound instead
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Hmm...possible... the Cetiri - Ceithre - Quattro - Kator... seems to be from a different source than 'four and vier ( fier ).
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Quote:
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'Dardanidae duri, quae uos a stirpe parentum prima tulit tellus, eadem uos ubere laeto
accipiet reduces. Antiquam exquirite matrem: hic domus Aeneae cunctis dominabitur oris, et nati natorum, et qui nascentur ab illis.'  We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. –Plato–
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Well, I thought I'd pop in and show you how it is in Portuguese and Spanish:
 1 - Un (een) -- Um 2 - Dau (die) -- Dois 3 - Tri (tree) -- Três 4 - Pedwar -- Quatro 5 - Pump (pimp) -- Cinco 6 - Chwech -- Seis 7 - Saith -- Sete 8 - Wyth (ooeeth) -- Oito 9 - Naw (now) -- Nove 10 - Deg -- Dez 1 - Un (een) -- Uno 2 - Dau (die) -- Dos 3 - Tri (tree) -- Tres 4 - Pedwar -- Cuatro 5 - Pump (pimp) -- Cinco 6 - Chwech -- Seis 7 - Saith -- Siete 8 - Wyth (ooeeth) -- Ocho 9 - Naw (now) -- Nueve 10 - Deg -- Diez
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Monday, January 10th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Quote:
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Thursday, February 24th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Celtic
Proto-Celtic: oinos dvai treis qetveres qenqe svex septn octô nevn decn Gaulish: *ônos *duô treis petor *pempe suex sextan *oxtû *navan decam Brythonic (P-Celtic) Proto-Brythonic: oino dau tri petuar pempe hweh seht oht nau dek Welsh: un dau tri pedwar pump chwech saith wyth naw deg Breton: unan daou tri pewar pemp c'hwec'h seizh eizh nav dek Unified Cornish: un deu try peswar pymp whegh seyth eath naw dek (Common): onan dew tri peswar pymp hwegh seyth eth naw deg (Modern): on deaw try pager pemp whee sith eath nawe deeg Goidelic (Q-Celtic) Proto-Goidelic: oino daBu triB keùur kweBik swe sehtn oht nowin dehn Old Irish: óen da tri ceth(a)ir cóic se secht ocht noi deich Irish: aon dó trí ceathair cúig sé seacht ocht naoi deich Scots Gaelic: aon dà trì ceithir cóig sia seachd ochd naoi deich Manx: nane jees tree kiore queig shey shiaght hoght nuy jeih
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Thursday, February 24th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Here are some roots:
Proto-Indo-European: *oynos/*sem *duwo: *treyes *kwetwores *penkwe *sweks *septm *okto: *newn *dekm Sanskrit: éka dvá trí catúr páñca s.as. saptá as.tá náva dáça Proto-Indo-Iranian: *aiwas *dva: *trayas *k'atwa:ras *pank'a *(k)swacsh *sapta *ashta: *nawa *daca All Indo-European (and some non-IE) languages and their (known) counting systems from 1 to 10 are on this site: http://www.zompist.com/euro.htm Really great for all sorts of comparison purposes. I found the Tocharian and Anatolian languages especially interesting as they are harder to find.
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Thursday, February 24th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Great post, Rusalka.
Where did you find the Proto-Celtic/ Proto-Brythonic / Proto-Goidelic from? What's interesting is that the Goidelic languages seem closer to Proto-Celtic in this sample than the Brythonic languages. Rather than the Goidelic languages dropping the Indo-European "P" sound, what strikes me as being more striking is that the Brythonic languages seem to have had an excessive liking for the "P" sound and introduced it wherever they could
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Friday, February 25th, 2005
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Re: Counting in Welsh
Quote:
I found them all from the same website that I gave the link to. Counting from 1 to 10 in all Indo-European languages, alive and extinct, and some European languages (such as Basque) which are not IE are in that page
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