Octillion

[Menydh]

Octillion

Status: Banned

Reason: speaking against the right of a native European people to the freedom and identity in their own land which has been denied to them for hundreds of years.

See Northern Ireland Unionist Leader Meets With Prime Minister of Ireland for more details.

[Strengthandhonour]

I had been tracking this guy. He seemed a bit suspicious.

[Errigal]

I have to agree with you. The people of Ireland should have their own conversation on this subject. I do welcome the advice from other Europeans because I see similarities between Ireland and other parts of Europe. Whatever is the future of Ireland it is not British. The Scots, English and Welsh are good neighbours who are part of our history and nothing more.

[Ederico]

He is just the typical imperialist, their arguments hold no water according to right reason and they know it. The state of England nowadays should remind them what their Imperialist logic leads to. It is grounded on false premises, it can only be maintained by force and oppression, and if not it leads to self-destruction. Problem is their thoughtstreams have infected others, and that thoughtstream being primarily liberalism.

[Theobald]

He sounded like this Australian British supremacist... Moderator at The Phora and Skadi, a well-known Stirpes-hater... Anarch, if I'm not mistaken ?

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Theobald

He sounded like this Australian British supremacist... Moderator at The Phora and Skadi, a well-known Stirpes-hater... Anarch, if I'm not mistaken ?

That would be Anarch, but I don't think it is him. I might be wrong.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

I have to agree with you. The people of Ireland should have their own conversation on this subject. I do welcome the advice from other Europeans because I see similarities between Ireland and other parts of Europe. Whatever is the future of Ireland it is not British.

There is also the fact that whether Catholics or Protestants, they are not British but Gaels. Even if they are so-called Scots-Irish they are Gaels.

In any case I don't think that anyone would believe that a reunion of Ireland would be done in terms of Northern Ireland being absorbed straightforward by the Republic. It is reasonable to expect a degree of autonomy. Not something that the Protestants would demand alone, I'm sure, but the Catholics too.

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

There is also the fact that whether Catholics or Protestants, they are not British but Gaels. Even if they are so-called Scots-Irish they are Gaels.

In any case I don't think that anyone would believe that a reunion of Ireland would be done in terms of Northern Ireland being absorbed straightforward by the Republic. It is reasonable to expect a degree of autonomy. Not something that the Protestants would demand alone, I'm sure, but the Catholics too.

"British" is a political not an ethnic designation. I would like the whole of Ireland to be the same colour on the map, I want it to happen peacefully and I know that would be a big task but if the Berlin Wall can come down so can this barrier. I honestly do believe that the people of Northern Ireland are much safer sharing a government with their fellow Irishmen than with London.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by A Few Acres of Snow

if the Berlin Wall can come down so can this barrier.

Not without pain. Western Germans still resent Eastern Germans in a similar fashion as Northern Italians resent Southern Italians. They consider E. Germans as a financial burden to W. Germans.

Instead of Terroni they call them Ossies.

Not the best example

[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Not without pain. Western Germans still resent Eastern Germans in a similar fashion as Northern Italians resent Southern Italians. They consider E. Germans as a financial burden to W. Germans.

Instead of Terroni they call them Ossies.

Not the best example

There is no good example. There is no perfect version of Ireland. Anyone who tries to govern Ireland is trying to hold a wolf by its ears, and that's the way it should be.

[Erasmus]

Their arguments are the same exposed by the kelpers to stay in Malvinas Loyalists and kelpers seem twins.

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Not without pain. Western Germans still resent Eastern Germans in a similar fashion as Northern Italians resent Southern Italians. They consider E. Germans as a financial burden to W. Germans.

Instead of Terroni they call them Ossies.

Not the best example

I would actually like to research the question accordingly as apart from name-slandering and tax-moaning I'm not informed much on the question. I read some material on the Italian question which gave quite a distinct perspective.

Given the fact that the union of Italy was done mostly my masonic revolutionaries who like all masonic revolutionaries didn't want their ideas limited to their nation, it is also important to note that the Kingdom of Italy was created to be ruled by a King from the North of the country. Some southerners claim that that was mostly the start of the current economic slumber of the South, although frankly I'm reticient to believe this. However, unless I'm given more plausible material I won't discard the notion accordingly.

Frankly, I don't view positively this intranational regional bickering when every nation's fatherland is submerged through illegal migration, and when liberal progressivism is eroding our nature in a gradual manner destroying any semblance of true and proper communal being. I'm referring specifically to marginal regionalistic movements, who have little plausible capabilities to gain secession or independence through democratic means, and instead of dealing with a greater impending identitarian catastrophe bicker with closer kindred peoples while their lands are flooded by migrants against their will.

If a State is in place, whether it is truly a nation-state or not, those pretending to work for their people's identity should use such channels unless they fantasise some popular insurgence which will work wonders. Autonomy can be achieved through positive and not negative approaches. Explaining the benefits of a proposed situation is much more effective politically and psychologically than focusing on the negativity of the present. Negativity is good to block impending threats, not to herald new situations.

This doesn't mean denying the right to greater autonomy if not outright independence if the popular will is such, as denying this would be contrary to the natural right of subsidiarity and tantamount centralistic despotism. A unitarian state denying subsidiarity to those that demand meet and have the force to gain it can only claim to have a veneer of democracy and not a true and proper one.

[Strengthandhonour]

The problem with the king of the house of Savoy was his poor management of Southern Italy. He thought that Italy was as industrialized as the north and tried to shift the production of goods. Southern Italy was producing a lot of the fruits for Europe. The king expected the people of the south to start doing mining among other tasks.
I have a book that describes this very well. I will try to dig it up.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Ederico

I would actually like to research the question accordingly as apart from name-slandering and tax-moaning I'm not informed much on the question.

I hear that the problem has decreased a little in intensity in the last decade. But it still seems to be an underlying problem and it works in both directions: Ossis vs Wessis.

It surely won't be as extreme as in the case where some years ago a girl from Bavaria at university, when we asked her about details of the German reunification, she stressed the differences between Western Germans and Eastern Germans, with clear dislike. When I told her that I couldn't believe what she was saying about her own people, she said that I did not understand and that they (Western Germans) were more similar to the other Western Europeans than to Eastern Germans.

Now you would think that she was some extremist or something. Far from the truth, she was pretty much an average Southern German girl.

I didn't think much more about it then, as I thought that it was something temporary and of little relevance, until about a year ago when I read an article which pointed to some degree of mutual dislike still existing.

See this article from 2000:

CNN.com In-Depth Specials - New Germany: Prosperity and pain

[...]

Nevertheless, it is surprising to learn how many ossies and wessies - eastern Germans and western Germans -- still stick to their old haunts.

A recent study by the Berlin public transport authorities shows that many Berliners stay within their accustomed neighbourhoods and do not venture out to eat, drink and party in those parts of the city that were once cut off by the Iron Curtain.

It is much the same for the rest of the country. In fact, some 40 percent of western Germans say they have never ventured east -- this, in a country known for citizens who trek to the end of the world on their cherished holidays.

Again and again, old prejudices pop up in daily life, such as the westerner who takes a holiday on the eastern German island of Usedom and remarks: "Last week, there were mostly westerners in our hotel. It felt much better than this week, when there were so many ossis".

Or there is the complaint by frustrated workers from the east about "besser-wessis" -- those westerners who claim to know everything better than eastern Germans.

One can almost physically sense the disillusionment when visiting some of the eastern towns, where up to a third of the people are unemployed.

Many people from the east have made it and founded new companies or found good jobs - often in the west.

Still, the latest polls show that some 50 percent of eastern Germans still feel like second-class citizens. And they still consider themselves eastern Germans first and citizens of a united country second.

However, only a few question German unification itself -- even if though so many problems still need to be resolved, and even though complete unity still seems years away.

[Ederico]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I hear that the problem has decreased a little in intensity in the last decade. But it still seems to be an underlying problem and it works in both directions: Ossis vs Wessis.

It surely won't be as extreme as in the case where some years ago a girl from Bavaria at university, when we asked her about details of the German reunification, she stressed the differences between Western Germans and Eastern Germans, with clear dislike. When I told her that I couldn't believe what she was saying about her own people, she said that I did not understand and that they (Western Germans) were more similar to the other Western Europeans than to Eastern Germans.

Now you would think that she was some extremist or something. Far from the truth, she was pretty much an average Southern German girl.

I didn't think much more about it then, as I thought that it was something temporary and of little relevance, until about a year ago when I read an article which pointed to some degree of mutual dislike still existing.

See this article from 2000:

Thanks for the info Mynydd, but I was more like referring to the Italian question.