Post Examples of East-Baltids

[thulimo]

Please, post here examples of persons who are essentially East-Baltic according to typologists. I started such thread at Skadi...



Russia, Saint-Petersburg. She is 23, if I am not mistaken...

[Tuurikerttu]

Looks more on the Gorid side IMHO. Do you have other pictures of her?

[thulimo]

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

Looks more on the Gorid side IMHO. Do you have other pictures of her?

No, I don't... I have already heard an opinion that she is Gorid. I can't imagine how that can be true. Couldn't you explain?
In my opinion, she is clearly East-Baltic. Facial breadth, jaw, eyes...
You know, as Theudiskaz from Skadi used to say, such threads should be more educative. So, probably, you have a better modern example of an East-Baltid to convince me?

[Ariets]

Look like litter dwarf to me or matrioshka at last
That should help you (I dont agree with all examples)
East-Baltid

[Exeter]

Coon's East-Baltid.


Kari Rimpi

Edit. Keep in mind Coon's East-Baltid doesn't look extreme like the somewhat Lapponoid looking examples of other physical anthropologists. The gentleman I posted look more similar to a Finn in Coon's East Baltics plate (7) from The Races of Europe (1939). I know his eyes are smaller etc. That is partly due to age. You can see the same in some old Nordids with skin hanging over their eyes. As we age our skin becomes inelastic.
Plate 7 -- East Baltics

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

Looks more on the Gorid side IMHO. Do you have other pictures of her?

Originally Posted by thulimo

No, I don't... I have already heard an opinion that she is Gorid. I can't imagine how that can be true. Couldn't you explain?
In my opinion, she is clearly East-Baltic. Facial breadth, jaw, eyes...
You know, as Theudiskaz from Skadi used to say, such threads should be more educative. So, probably, you have a better modern example of an East-Baltid to convince me?

I agree with Tuurikerttu here. I think of Gorid as well.

[thulimo]

Originally Posted by Ariets

Look like litter dwarf to me or matrioshka at last
That should help you (I dont agree with all examples)
East-Baltid

Thank you, but I assume that you could have quite misunderstood me. I don't need more understanding of that type. I just want people to post. Once again: if your examples are better than mine, post them!
P.S.

[Tuurikerttu]

Originally Posted by thulimo

No, I don't... I have already heard an opinion that she is Gorid. I can't imagine how that can be true. Couldn't you explain?
In my opinion, she is clearly East-Baltic. Facial breadth, jaw, eyes...
You know, as Theudiskaz from Skadi used to say, such threads should be more educative. So, probably, you have a better modern example of an East-Baltid to convince me?

Ok, I would like to clarify a bit my previous post, she's more on the Gorid side, but EB is most likely present too (certain softness in the tip of the nose for example). She is heavily overweight which makes classifying more difficult even if she's young (but she does look older her 23 years that's for sure).

My argument about her being not pred. EB is rather unscientific: She looks Russian. Now different Baltid types are common NW Russia, but I judge her from the basis if I saw her in a street of some Finnish town - she would be spotted as Russian in a distance. And the percentage of the Baltid types in Finland is greater than in Russia.

I have been thinking about why people classify some Russians as (East)Baltids while I see them somewhat alien to the (East)Baltid I am used to. Usually there are something Dinar(o)id involved, or then it's some other but closely related type.

I may post some specimen myself later

[thulimo]

Originally Posted by Tuurikerttu

Ok, I would like to clarify a bit my previous post, she's more on the Gorid side, but EB is most likely present too (certain softness in the tip of the nose for example). She is heavily overweight which makes classifying more difficult even if she's young (but she does look older her 23 years that's for sure).

My argument about her being not pred. EB is rather unscientific: She looks Russian. Now different Baltid types are common NW Russia, but I judge her from the basis if I saw her in a street of some Finnish town - she would be spotted as Russian in a distance. And the percentage of the Baltid types in Finland is greater than in Russia.

I have been thinking about why people classify some Russians as (East)Baltids while I see them somewhat alien to the (East)Baltid I am used to. Usually there are something Dinar(o)id involved, or then it's some other but closely related type.

I may post some specimen myself later

Fortunately, there are Russians who look completely different. But I should agree that sometimes there are some distinctive ethnical features present (that is true about all people). That is why I'm thinking about turning to the populationist paradigm. And this fact reveals that Armenian nordicist stuff greatly.

But. In my opinion, resemblance is drastic.

[Chauntecleer]

If going by general facial traits I personally think Sharapova could be considered one. Perhaps East-Baltid altered by Nordid admixture. Of course her build is more on the Nordid side, it's more typical for East-Baltids to be shorter and stockier ('pyknomorphic' as Agrippa might say).









She looks like a blonde Mongoloid in some pictures, especially when she squints against the sun.

[thulimo]

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

If going by general facial traits I personally think Sharapova could be considered one. Perhaps East-Baltid altered by Nordid admixture. Of course her build is more on the Nordid side, it's more typical for East-Baltids to be shorter and stockier ('pyknomorphic' as Agrippa might say).
She looks like a blonde Mongoloid in some pictures.

Sorry, but have you read my first post? I mean essentially East-Baltic people. Further, I can see nothing East-Baltic in her. Then, in such cases typological concept doesn't work at all. And finally, East-Baltids have nothing Mongoloid in them (no genetic evidence, and local Mongoloids have different morphology).

[Chauntecleer]

Originally Posted by thulimo

Sorry, but have you read my first post? I mean essentially East-Baltic people. Further, I can see nothing East-Baltic in her. Then, in such cases typological concept doesn't work at all. And finally, East-Baltids have nothing Mongoloid in them (no genetic evidence, and local Mongoloids have different morphology).

I read your first post. I'm just interested in hearing some other opinions, which is why I chose to post her. I recognise she may not be fully East-Baltic, hence why I suggested Nordid admixture.

If you don't see anything East-Baltic in her then how else do you explain her oblique eyes, snubby concave nose, sloping forehead and general paedomorphism. These are all East-Baltid traits are they not?

And there is no denying that East-Baltids have a strong Lappoid component. Perhaps they may not look Mongoloid or foreign to the Russians who live among them, but speaking as a Western European, they definitely look exotic to me.

[Exeter]

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

If going by general facial traits I personally think Sharapova could be considered one. Perhaps East-Baltid altered by Nordid admixture. Of course her build is more on the Nordid side, it's more typical for East-Baltids to be shorter and stockier ('pyknomorphic' as Agrippa might say).

Females of any race are more paedomorphic. They retain childish features and are therefore more difficult to classify. Did you deliberately show bad pictures of Maria Sharapova to get your point across?



http://www.livingroom.org.au/photolo...-sharapova.jpg

She look rather Nordid in some pictures.

She may resemble Coon's Neo-Danubian. Most Slavis in anthropology forums say that type doesn't exist. I don't know what is true. In any case, she doesn't look East-Baltid to me.

Plate 31 -- Neo-Danubians
First guy.

She looks like a blonde Mongoloid in some pictures, especially when she squints against the sun.

Are you being serious?

[thulimo]

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

I read your first post. I'm just interested in hearing some other opinions, which is why I chose to post her. I recognise she may not be fully East-Baltic, hence why I suggested Nordid admixture.

If you don't see anything East-Baltic in her then how else do you explain her oblique eyes, snubby concave nose, sloping forehead and general paedomorphism. These are all East-Baltid traits are they not?

And there is no denying that East-Baltids have a strong Lappoid component. Perhaps they may not look Mongoloid or foreign to the Russians who live among them, but speaking as a Western European, they definitely look exotic to me.

You should have reffered to the appropriate section of the forum.
Oblique eyes... Maybe I should agree here. As for the other traits, they are Baltic, not necessarily East-Baltic.
And physical anthropologists described only what they saw. A special thread is needed for that part of our discussion. And, you know, darker Meds can be considered having an Arabid strain. But they usually don't have it.

[Chauntecleer]

Originally Posted by Exeter

Females of any race are more paedomorphic. They retain childish features and are therefore more difficult to classify. Did you deliberately show bad pictures of Maria Sharapova to get your point across?


She look rather Nordid in some pictures.

That's funny.

And even if I was being selective with photos, in the 'good' pictures you provided she still can't escape looking round-headed and paedomorphic. Even with makeup. Compare her to a Russian Nordid like Dementieva and the differences in morphology become even more obvious.





Her features are definitely softened by something. Obviously there is some Baltid or Alpinid at work.

Are you being serious?

A slight exaggeration maybe, but yes, I will stand by my statement. After following this year's Wimbledon she did give off that vibe.

[Exeter]

Originally Posted by Chauntecleer

And even if I was being selective with photos, in the 'good' pictures you provided she still can't escape looking round-headed and paedomorphic.

I was obviously proving a point by posting better pictures for classification purposes. I admit she looks prettier in the photos I posted. Her face is rather long. You know there are round-headed and paedomorphic people in northwestern Europe too. Besides, East-Baltids have a squarish face shape.

Compare her to a Russian Nordid like Dementieva and the differences in morphology become even more obvious.

They are different. It still doesn't make her East-Baltid.

Furthermore, Nordenstreng who coined the term East-Baltid said there is nothing Mongoloid about them. There might be something Uralic about some of them. That is not the same as Mongoloid though.

CS Coon (The Races of Europe, 1939) wrote:

"The East Baltic race in the strict sense is to be distinguished from the Neo-Danubian; it is concentrated in the eastern Baltic countries only and consists of a blend of unreduced Upper Palaeolithic survivors with Corded people and with Neo-Danubians."

Her features are definitely softened by something. Obviously there is some Baltid or Alpinid at work.

So not East-Baltid? Lundman's Gorid may account for rounder traits.

A slight exaggeration maybe, but yes, I will stand by my statement. After following this year's Wimbledon she did give off that vibe.

I'm not saying it's impossible. She is from western Siberia. But we should keep in mind that doesn't necessarily mean anything. There are ethnic Russians in Vladivostok which lies much more east.

Even if you're on to something Uralic race would be more likely than Mongoloid. Don't you think?

Dienekes' Anthropology Blog: The Proto-Uralic racial type
What is Uralid?

[thulimo]

Thank you, Exeter.
By the way, Lapps' level of N3 is normal for European populations.
Chauntecleer, you don't consider Alpinids to be strange looking for a Western European, do you? Coon thought them to be Mongoloid inspired too...

Anyway, an educative thread turned into a speculative thread. The bottleneck of each forum is that everyone has his opinion.
People, please, post your examples (if you are sure).

[Stanley Spincircle]

Woman in the middle is rather good example of East-Baltid.

[thulimo]

Originally Posted by Leland Gaunt

Woman in the middle is rather good example of East-Baltid.

Yes, she is closer to East-Baltic end of the spectrum. As far as my understanding of that type is concerned... Thank you.

[Stanley Spincircle]

Another buch of people who can be qualified as East-Balids(-oids).