Celtic mentality

[Youenn]

Jack Whyte
Interviewed by Linda Richards
From January Magazine

So you don't feel it would have just been a matter of him pulling a sword from a stone. He would have had to, one way or another, win the people over.

Yeah, because when the Romans left Britain they'd been there for 460 years. Now that's an astounding length of time. That's longer than English-speaking peoples have been in North America. So Britain was Rome. And Rome was everywhere in Britain. The fabric of Britain was pretty well Roman. Except that there was this amazing dichotomy, which we still find today, in being able to go to anywhere in the world, listen to a Glasgow man open his mouth and identify exactly what it is: He's from Glasgow. That's how insular the Scots are today. And when I say Scots, I mean Celts, because the Welsh are the same. The Irish are the same. And the people of Cornwall -- the west country people -- are the same. Very clannish. Very egocentric. And very intolerant of outside views and outside opinions and -- God knows -- outside people.

Are you saying it's a genetic thing?

It's a genetic thing, of course. It's typical of the Celts. Part of the Celtic mentality, which is probably the most screwed up mentality in human society. Because these are a very dour, bleak and essentially humorless people to outsiders. But among themselves they're anything but. They have an incredible sense of humor and amazing feelings of hospitality. But, to the outsiders, they present a unified front which is invariably beetle-browed, disapproving and: War doar meddle wi me. [Laughs] And that's the sort of public Celtic visage that is presented.

http://www.booksense.com/people/archive/whyte.jsp

[Faísca]

How come that is a problem?

By the way, someone should tell the guy that celtic and genetics don't quite match...

[Gil]

This Jack Whyte fellow:



Like Johannes said above, I think mixing "celtic" with "genetics" is the dumbest thing one can do but whatever, the dude is a writer, they tend to do dumb stuff...

[Gladstone]

I've heard that "insular" comment made about the Scots as a criticism before. It's most likely simply a manifestation of a healthy identity....would that more peoples had it. It's what's preserved them this far and what will preserve them should they survive as a people.

[Gladstone]

More along the same lines...this from the blog of someone visiting Scotland. It's doubtful this person has any sense whatsoever of the irony of their words.

"Defiant. That what the Scots are. Amazing to me ? someone who chuckles at regional conflicts in the United States ? that there remains such animosity against the English. It's pervasive. From the jokes by bus drivers and pub owners, to a preference for money printed in the country, despite that fact that English pounds are equal value, the Scots are still pissed off that England stole their country...."

"Sure it looks like I forgot to write,
but cut me some slack, my passport and credit cards were stolen,
all my free time was spent on the telephone. They musta thought I was English..."

"Scotland's monument to the national hero William Wallace. For a highly fictionalized account of his life rent the movie Braveheart, but don't underestimate the Scottish people's pride in this man, who, after trying to maintain Scotland's independence from English rule, was drawn and quartered in London, where they made further point by displaying the quarters in separate places around town..."

And so it goes.

http://www.6foot6.com/fr/agfaimages/webSC.htm

[Milesian]

So Britain was Rome. And Rome was everywhere in Britain.

That's not quite true. They did penetrate far into the north of Scotland (such as the Battle of Mons Graupius) but they never established permanent Roman presence or authority there. The Picts were too much for the Romans to do anything but act defensively towards for most of the time. Frequent Pictish raids, sometimes with Gaels in alliance (such as when the Irish High King sent a troop of elite Fianna to aid the Picts), meant that the Romans found the best thing to do was to leave them alone and build fortifications to keep them out (Hadrian's Wall, Antonine Wall, etc).

The fabric of Britain was pretty well Roman. Except that there was this amazing dichotomy, which we still find today, in being able to go to anywhere in the world, listen to a Glasgow man open his mouth and identify exactly what it is: He's from Glasgow.

Obviously he's from Glasgow. But he still identifies himself as Scottish as well.
There is some rivalry between areas (West Coast vs East Coast / Highlands vs Lowlands), but it's not exactly peculiar. I'd imagine you'd find the same between Castile vs Catalonia, etc. And the same in almost any country.

That's how insular the Scots are today. And when I say Scots, I mean Celts, because the Welsh are the same. The Irish are the same. And the people of Cornwall -- the west country people -- are the same. Very clannish. Very egocentric. And very intolerant of outside views and outside opinions and -- God knows -- outside people.

They are really just like people anywhere in their situtaion. These areas are on the periphery. They are not large urban centres like London or Birmingham. So they are less metropolitan. People tend to have views which are slightly more traditional. I think that's a favourable trait.

Are you saying it's a genetic thing?

It's a genetic thing, of course. It's typical of the Celts. Part of the Celtic mentality, which is probably the most screwed up mentality in human society.

Racist!

Because these are a very dour, bleak and essentially humorless people to outsiders.
But among themselves they're anything but. They have an incredible sense of humor and amazing feelings of hospitality. But, to the outsiders, they present a unified front which is invariably beetle-browed, disapproving and: War doar meddle wi me. [Laughs] And that's the sort of public Celtic visage that is presented.

I don't think outsiders have this view of the Irish, anything but.
Perhaps I am wrong though.
I think the Scottish do have this trait, even amongst themselves. But this is freely acknowledged by the Scots themslves as being the result of centuries of Calvinist influence. It is peculiar to the Scots. One notices a difference between native Scots and the Irish community who immigrated during the 19th century. Even today there is a noticable difference in attitudes between those with a history of Calvinism/Presbyterianism and those who don't.
That is not a prejudiced comment. As I said, it is a largely accepted fact in Scotland.

[Menydh]

I have to agree with Glastone in that it is a strong manifestation of identity which works towards preservation, although in the case of the Scots one must not forget that this manifestation of their identity appears as a form of Irredentism in oposition to a different nation, England.

Something similar to what Nominoë posts occurs in the Spains. We have our different territorial identities strongly marked. It happened to me in the last months while I was in the Canary Islands. A new vigilant of the boatyard came to me and said that he had heared that I was Valencian. Then he smiled and said to me that basically we were from the same place. It didn't look to me as if he was right, so I asked what he meant. He said that he was from La Mancha (aka New Castile) and that he had lived in Valencia and had family there. Not quite the same thing, I told him. Geographically close but not quite the same..

[Siegmund]

Originally Posted by Milesian

I think the Scottish do have this trait, even amongst themselves. [...] That is not a prejudiced comment. As I said, it is a largely accepted fact in Scotland.

True, and apparently he's Scots himself. According to his website:

Jack Whyte was born and raised in Scotland, and educated in England and France.

Since he specializes in historical fiction, it's no surprise to discover where he got at least part of his education.

[Delbáeth]

"Defiant. That what the Scots are. Amazing to me ? someone who chuckles at regional conflicts in the United States ? that there remains such animosity against the English. It's pervasive. From the jokes by bus drivers and pub owners, to a preference for money printed in the country, despite that fact that English pounds are equal value, the Scots are still pissed off that England stole their country...."

We don't chuckle at regional conflicts in the US. Animosity against a Nation that stripped us of our Culture and Langauge is rather fitting. A Nation that has slaughtred, raped, and butchred their way through the Scottish Nation is no friend of ours. The mass migration of English into Scottish towns and Scottish villages to me is a systematic modern genocide to breed the Scottish people out of existance. My bus driver actually is a very funny man, and pub owners are brilliant, where else will ye get a pint for £1:20 at the age of 13?. Actually we don't mind using English bank notes, ti is the English that refuse to accept Scottish bank notes. Of course we're pissed of.

"Sure it looks like I forgot to write,

but cut me some slack, my passport and credit cards were stolen,
all my free time was spent on the telephone. They musta thought I was English..."

Not funny..

"Scotland's monument to the national hero William Wallace. For a highly fictionalized account of his life rent the movie Braveheart, but don't underestimate the Scottish people's pride in this man, who, after trying to maintain Scotland's independence from English rule, was drawn and quartered in London, where they made further point by displaying the quarters in separate places around town..."

Actually, most people in Scotland do understand that Braveheart is at best a fictional tale. We learn the facts in a little place called school.

Yes, he was killed, they did try to set an example. What happened then? The Battle of Bannocklburn where we won the 1st Wars of Independence and then Longshanks son came up to try the same, and then what happened? We wont the 2nd War of Independence.

[Marulus]

Immune to psychoanalysis, according to Freud.

[Susi]

Of course, Leipreachán, you caught our dastardly plan.

I'm sure every English person just wishes that the Scottish were wiped off of the face of the planet for existing and selling alcohol to people who are 13 years of age (coincidentally, when I was in England around this age I was indeed sold a pint o_O).

Realise that now is not the time to whinge about English "domination" and "rape" and "brutality" and "outbreeding" and it's time to whinge about more important issues at hand, such as the increasing population of Muslims in England who will eventually take over and then you'll have a real problem on your hands. Or would you rather us disappear?

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Susi

Of course, Leipreachán, you caught our dastardly plan.

I'm sure every English person just wishes that the Scottish were wiped off of the face of the planet for existing and selling alcohol to people who are 13 years of age (coincidentally, when I was in England around this age I was indeed sold a pint o_O).

They sell alcohol to 13 year old in Scotland?
Wish someone had told me earlier!

Realise that now is not the time to whinge about English "domination" and "rape" and "brutality" and "outbreeding"

Yes, stop moaning about centuries of rape, slaughter, oppression, and genocide. There's more important things in life, Leipreachán, you bitter little sod

and it's time to whinge about more important issues at hand, such as the increasing population of Muslims in England who will eventually take over and then you'll have a real problem on your hands. Or would you rather us disappear?

Oh yes, because being oppressed by Muslims would be MUCH worse
No offense Susi, but I hear this from New Worlder's all the time. It's the much lampooned warcry of Stormfront - "White Bruthas and Sistas - we should stop trivial squabbles and unite against the swarthy hordes!"

Such "squabbles" always seem trivial when you live on the other side of the world. I know how it must look to people who are largely sundered from their own history and heritage, but these trivial squabbles as some like to call them, are part of our history and what defines us. That is something that cannot be changed or glossed over, whether you, I or anyone else thinks it silly, because you cannot change history.

You can't seriously expect the mainstream population of say, Scotland, to live in abject fear of what Muslim immigrants might possibly do when/if their number grow large enough when people are already aware of what their fellow "whites" actually have been doing to them for thousands of years. It's just unrealistic to think otherwise.
The hard facts are that us "whites" have been doing a lot, lot worse in the Muslim countries than the Muslims have been doing to us here - that we've suffered more at the hands of our fellow "whites" than any Muslims other immigrants, and you can't convince people of the problems of immigration by resorting to a tactic of trivialisation of past wrongs and scare tactics of what some minority might possibly do at some point in the future.


In any case, who would want to live in a world where you can't hate anyone.
We'd all die of boredom!

[Susi]

I meant that there are at the moment bigger problems.

It isn't a trivial "squabble" to me, just I think there are larger threats than the common Englishman at the moment. I was not "trivialising past wrongs" but trivialising the idea of those crazy English bastards (of course we're all assholes, right?) attempting to "outbreed" the Scots at the current time. If we had some sort of "outbreeding" agenda I would assume it would rather take place on our own soil.

I'm unsure whether you mean that Muslims are preferable to English... in which case I'm unhappy. If that's the case then I'll piss off and die out then.

[Lutiferre]

.. systematic modern genocide to breed the Scottish people out of existance.

Originally Posted by Milesian

.. by resorting to a tactic of trivialisation of past wrongs ..

Disagreeing on what is the present issue is not the same as trivializing past wrongs. Accusing present day English people of systematic genocide is what I would call being a nutjob. For one, the assumption that most English people even have any significant ethnic feeling of kinship towards each other is inconsistent with average English people today who are tolerant of all sorts of immigrants and foreign cultures and religions, and then secondly drawing the conclusion that they are systematically breeding Scottish people out of existence, on the basis of the group mentality they dont have (which is reflected in the make-up of their present society).

Originally Posted by Milesian

In any case, who would want to live in a world where you can't hate anyone.
We'd all die of boredom!

[ edit: ad hominem ]

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre