Comparison of Scottish and Irish Gaelic

[Milesian]

http://www.smo.uhi.ac.uk/gaidhlig/ga-ge/coimeas.html

[Siegmund]

Impossible looking combinations of consonants at the beginning of Irish Gaelic words (mb, gc, nd, bhf, ng, bp, dt) strike terror in Scottish Gaelic speakers, but they are really very simple. They just mean that the preceding word historically used to end in an n or m, which often survives in the Scottish Gaelic spelling, but in Irish Gaelic only only survives as a modified pronounciation of the first letter of the following word.

And they say English is difficult. :-O

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Siegmund

And they say English is difficult. :-O

You aren't kidding. Once I started learning about grammar such as lentition, aspiration and eclipsis, I gave up for about 5 years

[Marcus Marulus]

Can a speaker of Irish Gaelic understand Scottish Gaelic?

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Can a speaker of Irish Gaelic understand Scottish Gaelic?

They wouldn’t understand it entirely.
However, if they spoke slowly then they probably would be able to get the basic gist of what was being said.
However, I think they would have a more difficult time when reading each other’s language/dialect as the Scottish version retains an older system which includes letters that are barely pronounced and thus it ends up having very long words. The spelling in Irish was revised in the 20th century to do away with many of these letters and thus reduce the size of words (the aim being to make learning the language easier) although it could be argued that by deleting them it also lost some subtle nuances.

The matter is complicated by the fact that there are 3 major dialects (in fact there are various other smaller ones which are all inter-related) within Irish itself and even they may not be mutually intelligible to each other when spoken at normal conversational speed.

[Marcus Marulus]

My God! I have the impression that the Irish orthography is so extremely complicated. And now you say that the present-day Irish orthography is a "simplified" version of the older one.

And Scottish has even more complicated writing system, you say. I can't possibly imagine how it looks like...

[Breogan]

And what about an Irish standard?
Does it exist or there are just three dialects?

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Breogan

And what about an Irish standard?
Does it exist or there are just three dialects?

Mícheál ó Siadhail says in the introduction to the book Learning Irish that there is, for the time being, no such thing as Irish standard. However, I have consulted the old edition, from the eighties, maybe the situation has changed in the meantime.

But Milesian is much more competent to answer.

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Mícheál ó Siadhail says in the introduction to the book Learning Irish that there is, for the time being, no such thing as Irish standard. However, I have consulted the old edition, from the eighties, maybe the situation has changed in the meantime.

I see, thanks.
As you know well, but perhaps some not,having a standard is absolutely necessary for every language.

But Milesian is much more competent to answer.

So let's wait for his response.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

My God! I have the impression that the Irish orthography is so extremely complicated. And now you say that the present-day Irish orthography is a "simplified" version of the older one.

And Scottish has even more complicated writing system, you say. I can't possibly imagine how it looks like...

Comparison of Irish and Scottish Gaelic

A comparison can be found here

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Mícheál ó Siadhail says in the introduction to the book Learning Irish that there is, for the time being, no such thing as Irish standard. However, I have consulted the old edition, from the eighties, maybe the situation has changed in the meantime.

I'm not sure why Ó Siadhail says that.
Standard Irish is what's taught in Irish schools.
It is heavily based on the Munster dialect (southern) yet it is somewhat artificial. It is not a historic dialect spoken by people in the Gaeltachtai, but it is a standard by which everyone can understand each other - in theory

But Milesian is much more competent to answer.

If you say so

[Yago]

Originally Posted by Milesian

I'm not sure why Ó Siadhail says that.
Standard Irish is what's taught in Irish schools.
It is heavily based on the Munster dialect (southern) yet it is somewhat artificial. It is not a historic dialect spoken by people in the Gaeltachtai, but it is a standard by which everyone can understand each other - in theory

You should see the artificiality of standardized Basque (Batua).

The various dialects were either mutually unintelligible or hard to understand from one to another. Basque being a Paleolithic language, it lacked many words and not just fairly modern ones. The Basque philosopher don Miguel de Unamuno noticed this when he argued that Castilian was the language spoken by the Basque people, because "the Basque language falls short for us to express our ideas". It is safe to assume here that he also meant that the Castilian language was in fact, in its origins, the vulgar Romance language spoken by Basques, attested by the heavy loans that it had from the speak of the Basques which makes it unlike other Romance languages (save the Occitan Gascon language).

One fun account is the adoption of a word for 'airport' in Basque. The logical thing to do would have been to translate "air" and "port". In Basque, "air" is haizea and "port" is kaia. But the pronounciation of haizea kaia in Basque sounds like in Castilian ahí se caía, which means "there it fell down" (or "there it crashed").

Therefore they opted out for the basquicized Latin word aeroportua!

(note of discharge: I cannot assure that this is not a urban legend)

[Breogan]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

You should see the artificiality of standardized Basque (Batua).

In the case of Basque it was more difficult to decide how create one standard, because of you say well: the many differences between the seven dialects. Not all speakers got satisfied, but it was a necessary step for keeping the language alive.
Even more, from the standard you can also study the dialects and compare differences between them, something impossible without the help of a standard (cultured) language.

[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Milesian

I'm not sure why Ó Siadhail says that.
Standard Irish is what's taught in Irish schools.
It is heavily based on the Munster dialect (southern) yet it is somewhat artificial. It is not a historic dialect spoken by people in the Gaeltachtai, but it is a standard by which everyone can understand each other - in theory

Ó Siadhail says he bases his textbook on the Galway dialect, especially on its pronunciation.

Maybe he personally doesn't like this standard you are talking about, based on the Munster dialect, maybe he has some personal objections to it, and for that reason he refuses to "acknowledge" it.

Standard is important anyway. So I'm glad to hear the Irish has a standard after all.

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Prometheus

Ó Siadhail says he bases his textbook on the Galway dialect, especially on its pronunciation.

Yes, I've heard he speaks a western dialect.

Maybe he personally doesn't like this standard you are talking about, based on the Munster dialect, maybe he has some personal objections to it, and for that reason he refuses to "acknowledge" it.

It's possible that he means there is no single Irish language but rather there are different dialects spoken. It seems strange that he would deny the existence of Standardised Irish as I'd imagine that he'd have learned it in school himself.

[Deus Vult]

Originally Posted by Marulus

And Scottish has even more complicated writing system, you say. I can't possibly imagine how it looks like...

Yer kidding? I have taken to Scottish Gaelic far easier than I have to English lol!. Written word is what I am best at, it is speaking it is hard.

[Ostrogorski]

Originally Posted by Marulus

Can a speaker of Irish Gaelic understand Scottish Gaelic?

Obviously two Irish Gaelic speaking persons can't understand each other, so what are the chances of mutual understanding with Scottish Gaelic speakers

[Milesian]

Originally Posted by Ostrogorski

Obviously two Irish Gaelic speaking persons can't understand each other, so what are the chances of mutual understanding with Scottish Gaelic speakers

Then again, a lot of English speakers would struggle to understand each other as well. Have you ever tried to converse with a Brummie or a Geordie?
You might be better off trying to understand an Irish Gaelic speaker

[Ostrogorski]

Originally Posted by Milesian

Then again, a lot of English speakers would struggle to understand each other as well. Have you ever tried to converse with a Brummie or a Geordie?

With the toon lads? Sure, I even had few oirish breakfast with them. They watch too much Boogs Booney cartoons

But the foking scoosrrrrrrrrrrrs were the real trouble, hehehe...

[Susi]

Sounds Familiar?

Just an interesting resource with recordings and examples sorted by date of accent or "textbook" accent, or minority ... about accents and dialects in the UK.