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Old Friday, April 1st, 2005
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Default Who would be king of Ireland?

if they where do have a monarch system?
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Old Friday, April 1st, 2005
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

I can claim descent back to several High Kings of Ireland...but then so can a large chunk of the population

There is not any pro-monarchy groups in Ireland (well, except Unionists but they are disqualified for supporting a foreign monarchy )
The only group I can think of that supports a native Irish monarchy is Pobal na h-Eireann http://sean1925.tripod.com
Although to say they are a fringe group would be something of an understatement
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Old Friday, April 1st, 2005
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milesian
I can claim descent back to several High Kings of Ireland...but then so can a large chunk of the population

There is not any pro-monarchy groups in Ireland (well, except Unionists but they are disqualified for supporting a foreign monarchy )
The only group I can think of that supports a native Irish monarchy is Pobal na h-Eireann http://sean1925.tripod.com
Although to say they are a fringe group would be something of an understatement
How about the Irish royals? i know that ireland wasnt united prior to Henry VIII

i was wondering if before henry was there a push to unite the royal irish families?merge into one kingship?


i posted this stuff on dodona while ago
Quote:
http://www.houseofnames.com/xq/asp/s.O_Neill/O_Neill_family_Crest/O_Neill_coat_of_arms/qx/coatofarms_details.htm

According to Irish tradition, the ancient kings of Ireland were the descendants of King Milesius of Spain. Milesius was the grandson of Breoghan, conqueror of Galicia, Andalusia, Murcia, Castile, and Portugal, who was also called Brigus or Brian. Milesius achieved outstanding military success in Egypt, and was given Scota, the Pharoah's daughter, in marriage. When Spain underwent a twenty-six year famine, Milesius sent his uncle Ithe to seek a new homeland, in accordance with an ancient prophecy. After Ithe discovered Ireland, only to be murdered by the resident Tuatha de Danan, his son Lughaide brought his body home to Spain.

In vengeance, Milesius sent his eight sons with a great fleet to conquer the lush green isle. Along the way, a vicious storm claimed the lives of five of the sons, including Ir, whose son Heber-Donn survived. Landing on the island in 1699 BC, the remaining three sons, Heremon, Heber, and Amergin, slew the Danan kings with the aid of Heber-Donn. Heber and Heremon divided the land between them and ruled as joint kings, calling the land 'Scotia', after their mother, and giving lands to Lughaide and Heber-Donn.

However, after only one year, a disagreement between their ambitious wives sparked a war between the brothers; Heremon slew Heber and then the childless Amergin and became sole king of Ireland. Tradition dictates that almost all the ancient kings of Ireland descended from Heremon, Heber, Ir and Ithe.

Among these royal descendants were several famous kings. These include Conn of the Hundred Battles, who was so called due to the hundreds of military victories he achieved during his lengthy 2nd century reign, which ended when he was assassinated by fifty thugs disguised as women. The Three Collas were brothers who were banished from Ireland in the 4th century after being usurped as monarchs by the son of the uncle whom they had previously overthrown. Exiled to Scotland for thirty years before their eventual pardon, they took the name 'Scotia' with them, transferring it to that land. Ireland was subsequently renamed in honor of Ir, brother of Heber and Heremon.

Later in that century, Ireland was ruled by King Niall of the Nine Hostages, whose military exploits are said to have made those of King Arthur pale by comparison. Defeating the Romans in Gaul and Britain, he prevented a Roman conquest of Ireland and gained his name from his habit of taking important captives from each of the nine nations he conquered during his career. In the 5th century, Laeghaire MacNiall became the first Christian Monarch of Ireland.

The most celebrated of all Irish kings was Brian Boru, who tradition credits with the introduction of hereditary surnames to Ireland. He deposed Malachi II as Monarch of all Ireland in 1002 AD, though the succession was amicable and Brian retained Malachi II as a valuable ally. In 1014, the Danes, who already controlled all of England and parts of Ireland, challenged Brian Boru for the leadership of Ireland. Fielding an army composed of forces from the provinces of Munster and Connacht, Brian Boru led the Irish to a decisive victory over the Danes and their allies, permanently ending the Danes' dreams of establishing their supremacy in Ireland. However, Brian Boru was slain in battle, at the age of 88. Malachi II re-ascended the throne, where he ruled as what many consider to have been the last absolute Monarch of all Ireland. After his death, the various provincial kings descended into endless quarreling amongst themselves in futile hopes of ruling the entire nation.

Quote:
From the book:The ancient world of the celts,by Peter Berresford Ellis

"In 1541 Henry VIII made himself king of Ireland and forced the irish royal families to surrender their titles in a policy called "surrender and regrant"."

He goes on and talks about the how some of the royal irish familys surrender their lands.Then he talks about the familys who didnt.Two familys did not surrender 'Donal IX The MacCarthy Mor' and O'Neills of Ulster,Which is family im talking about.

"Simlarly,the O'Neills of Ulster,finally defeated,had to flee aboard where their descendants still live in Spain and Portugal."

...the pedigree of the Ui Neill kings of Ulster starts with a descent from Eremon,the first Milesian monarch,who is said to have ruled northern half of Ireland in the year of the world (i.e 1015 B.C),coming down forty-one generations to Lugaid Riab nDerg who ruled in A.D 65-73.From there every generation is listed down to 'Niall' of the Nine Hostages,who ruled in A.D 379-409.Today,the two houses of the Uil Neill dynasty,as represented by Don Hugo O'Neill,Prince of Clanaboy,in Portugal,and Don Marcos O'Neill,11th Marques del Granja of Seville in Spain,can trace their unbroken lines back to 'Naill'.



i was wondering also Mil if their is any good webpages which lists all the royal families and such
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Old Friday, April 1st, 2005
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Couple more links

Quote:

By the received principles of international law it is claimed that the representatives of the ancient Royal Houses of Ireland are entitled to the title of Prince. O Conor Don is styled Prince of Connaught and O Neill of Clanaboy styled Prince of Clanaboy. The MacCarthy Mor is styled Prince of Desmond and if he used European titles, rather than the Gaelic form of the Patronymic, he would equate with "Royal Highness". The O Neill of Clanaboy has been recognised as a "Most Serene Highness". The Royal Houses comprise O Conor Don (Connaught), O Neill (Ulster), The MacCarthy Mor (Munster), and MacMorrough Kavanagh (Leinster, in abeyance). Then follow the Princely Houses of O Brien (Thomond), Maguire (Fermanagh), O Donnell (Tyrconnel), O Rouke (Breffny) and, below these, the comital Chiefs. The Irish Republic recognises feudal titles as a form of property guaranteed by the Constitution.
http://www.doyle.com.au/chiefs.html


Quote:
Editorial Reviews


Amazon.com
In time long past, little corners of Ireland were ruled by chiefs, kings, earls, and other nobles whose ancient dominion came to an end with the Tudor conquests of the 1500s. But, writes author Peter Ellis, the royal bloodlines continued to flow in faraway lands, the forgotten victims of "the ruthless colonial policy of an unsympathetic alien power." With the Flight of the Wild Geese, when many nobles abandoned the island, the hereditary aristocracy of Ireland lost power and, with time, was forgotten at home. Today, emerging from exile in places like Austria and Asturias, claimants to long-abandoned titles are now popping up everywhere, and the Irish government has been obliging some of them with "courtesy recognition"--an anachronism, many Irish object, in a democratic era. Surveying the surviving nobility, Ellis examines their claims and, in the process, addresses what he rightly calls "a much-neglected area of Irish history": the blue-blood past of the MacGillycuddys, Maguires, O'Brien's, and other storied families. Heraldry buffs, royalty watchers, and claimants to long-lost thrones will find much of interest in Ellis's wanderings through the island's unhappy history. --Gregory McNamee

Product Description:
Is your family name O'Callahan? O'Carroll? O'Donoghue? O'Donovan? O'Long? MacGillycuddy? O'Brien? O'Grady? O'Connor? O'Kelly? MacDermot? O'Rourke? O'Neill? O'Dogherty? O'Donel? MacMorrow? Maguire? McCarthy? Is it any variation on these? If so, you are probably related to one of the great Gaelic noble dynasties of Ireland, dynastic clans that ruled that country until Henry VIII ended their reign and forced their obedience to the English crown. In another fascinating book from Peter Berresford Ellis, the history of Ireland is traced through the genealogy of its noble families from ancient times to the present day. While writing Erin's Blood Royal, Ellis had the cooperation of the heads of the nineteen dynasties, families that are given a "courtesy recognition" and play a highly influential role in Irish cultural life. This invitation to Ellis from the families, however, also has allowed him to look at the notorious flip side of the story - pretenders to Irish royal position. When this book was first published in the United Kindom, the scandalous "MacCarthy Mr Affair" erupted, exposing a false Irish royal in the process. Ellis chronicles the scandal and its aftermath, giving readers an interesting contemporary viewpoint on the importance of this royal rank and what some will do to achieve it. In Erin's Blood Royal, Peter Berresford Ellis charts the struggles an victories of one of the most ancient aristocracies in Europe, looks at their present day relevance and provides a fascinating guide for anyone interested in the history of Ireland, its ruling families and the lost world of Celtic royalty.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/IS...038345-6231934
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Old Saturday, April 2nd, 2005
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amadis de Gaul
How about the Irish royals? i know that ireland wasnt united prior to Henry VIII
When it speaks of Irish royals it can mean chieftains, Tuath Ri, Ui-ri, or Ard-Ri and their families. The potential number of Irish royals are pretty numerous

Quote:
i was wondering if before henry was there a push to unite the royal irish families?merge into one kingship?
Not if you mean by intermarriage. But rather the Kingship of Tara was symbolic and gavce it's holder the title of High King. All others were supposed to aknowledge the High King's authority in theory at least, often though the authority was only symbolic rather than practical.


Quote:
He goes on and talks about the how some of the royal irish familys surrender their lands.Then he talks about the familys who didnt.Two familys did not surrender 'Donal IX The MacCarthy Mor' and O'Neills of Ulster,Which is family im talking about.
My own family were Ui-ri to the O'Neil's and often the power behind the throne. I believe the chief of the O'Neill clan is currently a Spaniard who is the direct descendent of the Earl of Tyrone who left Ireland during the Flight of the Earls.


As for good webpages, there are so many royal lineages that I can't think of anywhere that would list them all. You will find plenty dealing with specific lineages. For Ulster and O'Neill, here is a good one - http://home.epix.net/~ramcl/ancient.html
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Some interesting stuff mil! i have tons more questions if you dont mind
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Risteard Ua Maolcatha
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scáthach
Risteard Ua Maolcatha
Bí ' do thost!
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Well I heard it was whoever the Lia Fail roared for at Tara
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

We have possession of it over here now, known as the Stone of Scone
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

milesian would
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Old Monday, March 20th, 2006
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Smile Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scáthach
milesian would
Yeah, that's a given really
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

as is my being princess and no queen ever taking the throne. i don't like the title queen you see.
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scáthach
as is my being princess and no queen ever taking the throne. i don't like the title queen you see.
Homophobe
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

queer.
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Old Tuesday, March 21st, 2006
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Default Re: Who would be king of Ireland?

Yes, it is rather odd now you mention it, my little fruitcake.
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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