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| View Poll Results: Who is the better citizen or most patriotic to his country, or member of his ethnic group? | |||
| 17 year old guy, Neo-Nazi, admirer of Fascism, racial separatist |
   
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5 | 41.67% |
| Average citizen, anti-racist, anti-nationalist, multiculturalist |
  
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0 | 0% |
| None of them truly care for their nation. They are different, but still equal at that. |
  
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7 | 58.33% |
| Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll | |||
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Thought Experiment
Who is a better citizen of his country or member of his ethnic group? Who is the more patriotic?
1. 17 year old guy, Neo-Nazi, admirer of Fascism, racial separatist 2. Average citizen, 30 years old, anti-racist, anti-nationalist, multiculturalist 
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
What's the point of this? Positing a false dilemma?
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
Oh dear - is this to see if we are also "Ageist"?
 You initially ask the question - "who is a better citizen?" However, without first defining what you mean by "better", no realistic answer is possible.
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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A better citizen or a more patriotic citizen would be one who serves the interests of his people the most, regardless of other factors. Thats just my opinion. And thats very general. As to which of the possibilities qualifies for that, I am not sure!
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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What answer would you like? Quote:
You would have to specify what you mean to elicit any sort of meaningful answer. Quote:
It's a bit like asking what's better - a punch on the nose or a punch on the chin? It depends on whether you think a crooked nose or some missing teeth are worse, I suppose  Quote:
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
A punch on the chin.
And yes I know, its very general, but that doesnt mean you cant have an opinion. And no - I'm not unsure of the question, I was referring to the answer.
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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__________________
The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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Not that I'm one, but the Neo-Nazi agenda beyond the Nazism and Hitlerism, is essentially closer to a nationalist agenda than your average multiculturalist anti-racist anti-nationalist person. But the Neo-Nazi damages nationalisms reputation, so that makes it less patriotic to be one. But does that make it more patriotic to be an anti-Nationalist than a Neo-Nazi? Quote:
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
The premises of the whole question are vague to say the least, or even, we could say, totally undefined. "Better" from what point of view, it remained unexplained.
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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Just grit your teeth whilst the doctor shunts it back into position Quote:
You see, you have to take all these things into consideration and discuss them logically before you can arrive at an answer. Which was really my point frm the start. Otherwise, you are as well just flipping a coin and deciding your answer from there. Quote:
As I stated previously 
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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None of them; they are either too extremist and brainless, either too influenced by the media and by every-one's common opinion Just a small and selected intellectual Elite can do a good job in what concerns the taking of decisions 
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 Last edited by Kernunnos; Friday, December 14th, 2007 at 21:02. Reason: grammar
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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Some kind of meritocracy would at least make more sense than the shambles we suffer under today, which is basically Oligarchy masquerading as Democracy.
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil - Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922) The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth. For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish. - Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596). The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation. - Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation. - Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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Re: Thought Experiment
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Friday, December 14th, 2007
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