Stirpes  

Go Back   Stirpes > History & Archeology > Archeology

Archeology News and discussions on the discovery of remains of Ancient and Classic Cultures and Civilisations.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Wednesday, March 26th, 2008
Ferran's Avatar
veritas vos liberabit
 
Last Online: 2 Days Ago 06:39
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Península Hispánica
Posts: 1,417
Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.Ferran 's judgement is sought by kings.
Default Spain dig yields ancient European

Spain dig yields ancient European

By Paul Rincon
Science reporter, BBC News



The lower jaw could be from a female

Scientists have discovered the oldest human remains in western Europe.

A jawbone and teeth discovered at the famous Atapuerca site in northern Spain have been dated between 1.1 and 1.2 million years old.

The finds provide further evidence for the great antiquity of human occupation on the continent, the researchers write in the journal Nature.

Scientists also found stone tools and animal bones with tell-tale cut marks from butchering by humans.

The discovery comprises part of a human's lower jawbone. The remains of seven teeth were found still in place; an isolated tooth, belonging to the same individual, was also unearthed.

Its small size suggests it could have belonged to a female.

The find was made in the Sierra de Atapuerca, a region of gently rolling hills near the Spanish city of Burgos which contain a complex of ancient limestone caves.

See one view of human evolution

These caves have yielded abundant, well-preserved evidence of ancient occupation by humans and have been designated a Unesco World Heritage Site.

The new remains were unearthed at the archaeological site of Sima del Elefante, which lies just a few hundred metres from two other locations which have yielded remains of early Europeans.

"It is the oldest human fossil yet found in Western Europe," said co-author Jose Maria Bermudez de Castro, director of Spain's National Research Centre on Human Evolution (CENIEH) in Burgos.

Ancient migration


Dr Bermudez de Castro told BBC News that the latest find had anatomical features linking it to earlier hominins (modern humans, their ancestors and relatives since divergence from apes) discovered in Dmanisi, Georgia - at the gates of Europe.


Several teeth were preserved with the jaw

The Georgian hominins lived some 1.7 million years ago and represent an early expansion of humans outside Africa.

The researchers therefore suggest that Western Europe was settled by a population of hominins coming from the east.

Once these early people had "won the West" they evolved into a distinct species - Homo antecessor, or "Pioneer Man", say the scientists.

The scientists now plan to investigate whether Pioneer Man might have been ancestral to Neanderthals and to even our own species Homo sapiens.

Chris Stringer, head of human origins at London's Natural History Museum, said that until more material was discovered from Atapuerca, he was cautious about assigning the new specimen to the species Homo antecessor.

But he added: "However the specimen is classified, when combined with the emerging archaeological evidence, it suggests that southern Europe began to be colonised from western Asia not long after humans had emerged from Africa - something which many of us would have doubted even five years ago."

The Spanish researchers used three different techniques to date the new fossils: palaeomagnetism, cosmogenic nuclide dating and biostratigraphy.

Dr Bermudez de Castro said the new find represented the earliest reliably dated evidence of human occupation in Europe.



Click here to return

Paul.Rincon-INTERNET@bbc.co.uk



Source: BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Spain dig yields ancient European
__________________

"Do not be suprised, my friend, that I long so much for remote lands in which people feel immensely rich with very little; it is true that I live in Rome enjoying a life of fame and prestige, but it is also true that I was born from Celts and Iberians."


--Marcus Valerius Martialis, Epigrammata
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Thursday, March 27th, 2008
Galaico's Avatar
Atsegin handiz
 
Last Online: 2 Weeks Ago 22:59
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hypocrite Kingdom of Xpain
Age: 25
Posts: 1,223
Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.
Default Re: Spain dig yields ancient European

No Homo Antecessor nor Homo Heidelbergensis remains have been found out of Europe, and while most anthropologists may agree in that the Homo Antecessor could have originated in Africa and later moved to Europe, the Homo Heidelbergensis most probably appeared in Europe, and is unrelated to Africa, and therefore unrelated to the Homo Sapiens.

What could be possible is that a parallel evolution took place in Africa giving birth to a very similar hominid (Homo Rhodesiensis?), and both of them would roughly be classified as Homo Heidelbergensis, BUT they would be different hominids. Just like the Asian and Middle Eastern Neanderthals, who were not real Neanderthals but Neanderthaloids who had suffered a parallel and almost identical evolution process as the Neanderthals from Europe and shared a common ancestor (Homo Heidelbergensis) but were not exactly the same hominid.
__________________
WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH THE STREETS OF OUR CITIES THEN YOU WALK THROUGH THE BLOOD ON OUR LAND.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Tuesday, April 8th, 2008
bioblitzkrieg's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Last Online: Friday, June 20th, 2008 15:13
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 70
bioblitzkrieg has earned the respect of peers.
Default Re: Spain dig yields ancient European

I was under the impression that heidelbergensis originated in africa, and from the branch that migrated into europe through the middle east, thus sprang the neandertal, and from the branch that remained in 'east' africa archaic homo sapien emerged, with both neandertal and sapien sharing a commong heidelbergensis ancestor between 300,000-500,000 years ago.

But if like you said, Heidelbergensis originated from Europe with an ancestral migration of antecessor from africa, how would the timetable for sapien-neandertal divergence be able to exist, as the species before heidelbergensis 'antecessor' would therefore have to be the last common ancestor between sapien and neandertal, which seems too far back in time, unless your hypothesis also mentions homo sapiens as originating in europe alongside thier heidelbergensis ancestors or sapiens originating from another hominid that was heidelbergensis like in east africa.

though in a multiregional Sapien hypothesis, this answer could get quite complex, but please try to clarify, its highly interesting.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)     Quote this post in a PM
Old Tuesday, April 8th, 2008
Galaico's Avatar
Atsegin handiz
 
Last Online: 2 Weeks Ago 22:59
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hypocrite Kingdom of Xpain
Age: 25
Posts: 1,223
Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.Galaico 's judgement is sought by kings.
Default Re: Spain dig yields ancient European

The oldest Homo heidelbergensis is found in Heidelberg (Germany) and has an estimated Age of 530,000 years. Therefore it could be suggested that the Homo antecessor (the last ancestor of both Sapiens and Neanderthals) survived in Europe until more or less that age.

However the last common ancestor between both Sapiens and Neanderthals should have lived in Africa before Europe was colonised by the Homo antecessors. There are some hominid remains in Europe, as shown in the article, with an estimated age of more than a million years, but those belong to some intrepid "explorers" rather than to a permanent settlement, most anthropologists believe the effective colonisation of Europe took place about 800,000 years ago.

I don't believe in the Multi-regional theory at all, I'm an Outofafricaist , but I believe that the last common ancestor between Neanderthals and Sapiens lived 1,000,000-800,000 years ago.

This is the evolutionary scheme proposed by the Atapuerca (Burgos, Spain) Research team in 1997, probably the most accurate one until now:

__________________
WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH THE STREETS OF OUR CITIES THEN YOU WALK THROUGH THE BLOOD ON OUR LAND.

Last edited by Galaico; Wednesday, April 9th, 2008 at 09:44.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
None


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Myth and Reality: The Legacy of Spain in America Ferran Historical Revisionism 8 Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 13:06
European Unification - A Masonic Accomplishment Ferran Freemasonry & The Anglosphere 3 Wednesday, August 2nd, 2006 00:11
Top 10 myths and muddles about the Spanish Armada Ferran Historical Revisionism 4 Friday, July 28th, 2006 08:51
Antisemitism and the Extreme Right in Spain (1962–1997) Menydh Judaism 3 Monday, June 5th, 2006 17:21
Tengrianism:Pantheon of Turks and Mongols Alkman Religion & Theology 0 Saturday, March 12th, 2005 08:14

Locations of visitors to this page

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:02.

Page generated in 0.3864191 seconds with 17 queries.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0