chicken bones suggest Polynesians discovered America before Colombus

[Strengthandhonour]

Chicken bones suggest Polynesians found Americas before Columbus

LiveScience.com

Heather Whipps

June 4, 2007


Which came first–the chicken or the European?

Popular history, and a familiar rhyme about Christopher Columbus, holds that Europeans made contact with the Americas in 1492, with some arguing that the explorer and his crew were the first outsiders to reach the New World.

But chicken bones recently unearthed on the coast of Chile—dating prior to Columbus’ “discovery” of America and resembling the DNA of a fowl species native to Polynesia—may challenge that notion, researchers say.

“Chickens could not have gotten to South America on their own—they had to be taken by humans,” said anthropologist Lisa Matisoo-Smith from the University of Auckland, New Zealand.

Polynesians made contact with the west coast of South America as much as a century before any Spanish conquistadors, her findings imply.

DNA in bone

The chicken bones were discovered at an archaeological site called El Arenal, on the south coast of Chile, alongside other materials belonging to the indigenous population. While chickens aren’t native to the region, it was believed the local Araucana species found there now was brought to the Americas by Spanish settlers around 1500.

Tests on the bones, however, now indicate the birds arrived well before any European made landfall in South America, Matisoo-Smith and her colleague Alice Storey found.

“We had the chicken bone directly dated by radio carbon. The calibrated date was clearly prior to 1492,” Matisoo-Smith told LiveScience, noting that it could have ranged anywhere from 1304 to 1424. “This also fits with the other dates obtained from the site (on other materials), and it fits with the cultural period of the site.”

Did Polynesians continue eastwards?

DNA extracted from the bones also matched closely with a Polynesian breed of chicken, rather than any chickens found in Europe.

Polynesia was settled by sailors who migrated from mainland Southeast Asia, beginning about 3,000 years ago. They continued gradually eastwards, but were never thought to have journeyed further than Easter Island, about 2,000 miles off the coast of continental Chile.

The chicken DNA suggests at least one group did make the harrowing journey across the remaining stretch of Pacific, Matisoo-Smith said.

“We cannot say exactly which island the voyage came from. The DNA sequence is found in chickens from Tonga, Samoa, Niue, Easter Island and Hawaii,” Matisoo-Smith said. “If we had to guess, we would say it was unlikely to have come from West Polynesia and most likely to have come from Easter Island or some other East Polynesian source that we have not yet sampled.”

The results are detailed in the latest issue of the journal Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Kon-Tiki trip in reverse

It might be the most tangible, but this isn’t the first evidence that pre-Columbian voyages from the Pacific to South America were possible.

In 1947, Thor Heyerdahl, the famous Norwegian anthropologist, made the voyage from Peru to Polynesia aboard his Kon-Tiki raft to prove the trip was doable with a rudimentary vessel.

There are more scientific arguments, too, said Matisoo-Smith.

“There is increasing evidence of multiple contacts with the Americas,” she said, “based on linguistic evidence and similarities in fish hook styles.” Physical evidence of human DNA from Polynesia has yet to be found in South America, she added.






source: Chicken Bones Suggest Polynesians Found Americas Before Columbus

[Savage]

Is that history book from 1950?

Colombus was less than 500 years later in America, than the Norsemen, which in best case makes him a number 2, not the first European. This became axiom by historicans and archeologists times ago..

Also the first European born in Vinland was a Norseman.

For sources, check the 3 different Icelandic sagas that considers this topic.



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[Errigal]

Originally Posted by Strengthandhonour

Chicken bones suggest Polynesians found Americas before Columbus

“Chickens could not have gotten to South America on their own—they had to be taken by humans,” said anthropologist Lisa Matisoo-Smith from the University of Auckland, New Zealand.

There is also the possibliity of super-intelligent explorer chickens who brought along their Polynesian servants.

[Menydh]

It's been long believed that Polynesians reached America long before anyone else. So far.

Admitting that Leif Eriksson reached the Labrador Peninsula, it still doesn't entitle him the Discovery..

When people speak of the Discovery of America, they do it from a European Civilization perspective. This is not to say that the Norsemen were not European or that they do not belong to the European Civilization. What I'm saying is that it is with Columbus that the landing in The Americas takes a significance for Europe. Leif Eriksson's return journey to America stops there.. both for the Norsemen and for Europe as a whole. There is no continuity. No attempt is made to try to establish a route and to link both lands. Or if it was made, it didn't succeed. No thorough explorations and, like it or not, conquests derive from the journey. Thereafter, there is no consequence for the European World from that journey.

Again, this does not mean that Leif Eriksson does not deserve the merit of having been the first European to have reached the landmass of the American continent.

Originally Posted by Savage

Also the first European born in Vinland was a Norseman.

I beg your pardon? Only three possibilities come to mind:

• They had a woman onboard. Which was a rare thing to do among Vikings.
• One of the Vikings is known to have had a relation with a native woman. Therefore the born child would not be European but half caste of European and Native American.
• One of the Viking men was pregnant?

[Crvena zvezda]

This isn't anything new. Iforget his name but isn't their a Scandinavian man who in the 1950s or 60s proved that the ancient polynesians could have reached america with the technology they had.

[FlashVoyager]

What about the pre-historic Siberian Hunter-gatherers who discovered it some 20.000 years ago

[Menydh]

Norwegian Thor Heyerdahl with the Kon-Tiki, a balsa raft boat.

Velkommen til Kon-Tiki Museet - Welcome to The Kon-Tiki Museum

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by FlashVoyager

What about the pre-historic Siberian Hunter-gatherers who discovered it some 20.000 years ago

Well, more recent research points to that before the Mongoloids the lands were inhabited by a people similar to Australoids. We might as well speculate that they were in fact Paleo-Native Australians who might have reached America on boats.

[Savage]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

It's been long believed that Polynesians reached America long before anyone else. So far.

Admitting that Leif Eriksson reached the Labrador Peninsula, it still doesn't entitle him the Discovery..

Labrador too, but the settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows was at New Foundland, south of Labrador. Sources

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I beg your pardon? Only three possibilities come to mind:

Well heres a fourth, the actual:

Vikings in America Source, among numberous sources

Leif the Lucky, discoverer of America

Five hundred years before Columbus, the first European set foot in America: Leif the Lucky, who was born in west Iceland, the son of Erik the Red. According to the Sagas, Leif wintered in a place he named Vinland after grapes he found growing there, around the year 1000. A likely site is Newfoundland, where ruins of a Viking farmstead have been excavated. Leif left the New World but another expedition was led there by Thorfinn Karlsefni and his wife Gudrid Thorbjarnardottir, who explored as far as where New York stands today and spent three or four years trying to establish a settlement before they gave up the idea. While in America they had a son, Snorri Thorfinnsson, the first European born in the New World. Gudrid and Thorfinn left America to live on a farm in north Iceland, Glaumbær, and when she was widowed she made a pilgrimage on foot to Rome, becoming the first known female transatlantic traveller and undoubtedly the most widely travelled women for at least the next 500 years.

So one could perhaps say that Colombus "discovered" South America. But definitivly not North America. Did he by the way reach the continent, or just the Caribbean islands?

But Leif Eriksson "discovered" North America, and the Norsemen explored the coast from Greenland down to the area where NY is now. I am still looking for proofs that the Norsemen reached the pacific through the Northwestern Passage, that not always have been closed by icemasses, such comes and goes.

But actually none of them "discovered" it anymore than the mongol hords "discovered" Europe. There were people there from before, that already had "discovered" it, and lived there.

And the socalled "civilization" that were brought over the sea, was greed, violence, and arms technology, to slaughter the original population, religious imperialism and veneral diseases, nothing of what I even call close to civilized, rather contreary, brute power.

What is defined as "civilization" is also highly subjective. I think that the indians living in America was at least as civilized than the brute intruders. But of course, they had not the arms technology.

Does arms technology and the art of killing and robbing and spreading diseases on people make one "civilized?" No, but it gives them the power to force the definition of themselves as "civilized" on their victims.


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[Freebooter]

Originally Posted by Savage

And the socalled "civilization" that were brought over the sea, was greed, violence, and arms technology, to slaughter the original population, religious imperialism and veneral diseases, nothing of what I even call close to civilized, rather contreary, brute power.

What is defined as "civilization" is also highly subjective. I think that the indians living in America was at least as civilized than the brute intruders. But of course, they had not the arms technology.

Who are these 'religious imperialists' and 'brute intruders' you are referring to?

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Savage

Labrador too, but the settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows was at New Foundland, south of Labrador. Sources

Yes, sorry. Anyway, reaching New Foundland would have meant that at the very least they had to sight the Labrador Peninsula.

Well heres a fourth, the actual:

Well, but that's speculation until proven.

So one could perhaps say that Colombus "discovered" South America. But definitivly not North America. Did he by the way reach the continent, or just the Caribbean islands?

But Leif Eriksson "discovered" North America

Again, you are using a reduced definition of the word "discovery". For a high definition, refer to my previous post.

and the Norsemen explored the coast from Greenland down to the area where NY is now.

That's little more than speculation. But if it is a matter of faith for you, we will leave it there.

That the Norsemen reached the American continent before, it is little surprising. One only has to look at the charts and consider the relatively short open seas navigation required (comparatively speaking), to realize that it should have been expected.

But actually none of them "discovered" it anymore than the mongol hords "discovered" Europe. There were people there from before, that already had "discovered" it, and lived there.

As I said, it was a Discovery from a European perspective.

And the socalled "civilization" that were brought over the sea, was greed, violence, and arms technology, to slaughter the original population, religious imperialism and veneral diseases, nothing of what I even call close to civilized, rather contreary, brute power.

That sounds like leftist-oriented history re-reading.. and re-writing.

Hernan Cortes conquered the Aztec empire only with only a 400 Spanish men. This is, needless to say, only a part of the story because he conquered it with the help of the 13,000 natives with who he had forged alliances, and who belonged to tribes enslaved by the Aztecs. I must also remind you that this was the early 16th century (1519) and that fire weapons were not like as advanced as later when the English started their conquest of Northern America. Further, many of those fire weapons were more a burden than anything else in the forests that the Spanish had to move through.

As for the accusation of "slaughtering" the native population, I suggest that you travel through Mexico and judge by yourself. Years ago, that same accusation was thrown against me by a Mexican who, incidentally, look exactly like one of those natives who were supposedly slaughtered. Rather, his ancestors were probably liberated from the oppresion of the Aztecs by the Spanish.

Civilization? Probably you ignore the fact that in the territories of the Spanish Empire, schools and even universities where natives were educated, existed long before one school ever existed in the American colonies of Britain.

When I have time for it, I'll translate a few texts from the book "Empires of the Atlantic World", a comparative study of the Spanish and the British Empires by Sir John H. Elliot.

What is defined as "civilization" is also highly subjective. I think that the indians living in America was at least as civilized than the brute intruders. But of course, they had not the arms technology.

Does arms technology and the art of killing and robbing and spreading diseases on people make one "civilized?" No, but it gives them the power to force the definition of themselves as "civilized" on their victims.

See above.

You are using the old and rejected Myth of the Noble Savage. As well as the ideas spread by the Black Legend most of which have been refuted in the latest decades by the most prestigious academics.

[Menydh]

Empires of the Atlantic World (book reviews)
Myth and Reality: The Legacy of Spain in America

[Susi]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Admitting that Leif Eriksson reached the Labrador Peninsula, it still doesn't entitle him the Discovery..

Well yes, because it was another man who first saw it. Bjarni Badarson (son of Bard, the son of Herjolf, kinsman of Ingolf (the first settler of Iceland)). Thank you, Graenlendinga Saga. Sorry to split hairs on this one.

Leif Eriksson's return journey to America stops there.. both for the Norsemen and for Europe as a whole. There is no continuity. No attempt is made to try to establish a route and to link both lands. Or if it was made, it didn't succeed.

It didn't succeed. The Natives started a war with the Norse because they were frightened of a bull. The Norse had brought women, children, and men to form a trading community.

• They had a woman onboard. Which was a rare thing to do among Vikings.
• One of the Vikings is known to have had a relation with a native woman. Therefore the born child would not be European but half caste of European and Native American.
• One of the Viking men was pregnant?

They had women on board. Actually there is a pregnant woman in Vinland, in Eirik's Saga and the Graenlendinga Saga. Her name is Freydis and she is one of Eirik the Red's illegitimate daughters.


Anyways. History lesson for the day is done.