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Saturday, December 30th, 2006
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Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
In this thread, I'll post articles about Veneti theory which is popular today by Slovenian nationalists and patriots, in contrast with pan-Slavic theory that we came from some swamps in north-east Europe.
------- The Venetians - our early Ancestors by Ivan Kobal History, unlike mathematics, is an imperfect science and can never be complete or totally impartial. Facts are denied, distorted, ignored, forgotten. History is often written long after the denials, the distortions, the memories of events and their consequences have disappeared. When the bare facts of the past resurface like fossilized plants or prehistoric animals, the expert historian is there to draw conclusions. Such conclusions are often incompatible with accepted traditions and beliefs, and it takes all the skill of the historian to convince the conservative scholars that their beliefs are being proved wrong. This process of buried truth being brought back to life after centuries of oblivion is mostly due to undemocratic systems of government in periods of dictatorships and nationalistic mass manias, during which history books are destroyed and replaced by new ones to suit the people in power. This is often followed by a complete reversal, back to former freedom and glory, but without much documentation, because it had been lost. At that stage people's national pride and imagination builds up stories and traditions on hearsay of veterans and the historian is confronted with the task of sorting out the evidence and reading between the lines what can be verified and confirmed. In these circumstances it is hard not to be partial in favour of available material and against the darker periods of doom and destruction of documents. Nevertheless, every now and then, especially in recent times with the help of modern technology, a bombshell is uncovered, a historical scandal of wide ranging consequences confuses every issue and condemns many history books to the scrapheap. Copernicus, Galileo, Darwin and others, have certainly given historians a lot to reconsider and scholars to chew. One such historical bombshell was uncovered some years ago by Slovenian historians and has been mushrooming into the sky of the future ever since. Dr. Jozko Savli, Ivan Tomazic and Matej Bor formed a trio of experts on archeology and languages and came up with the discovery of documentation, which unveils a set of facts about European history and early Europeans totally different and opposed to the previously accepted theories. Barbaric invasions which took place in Europe, moving from east to west in the dark ages and marking their path with misery and devastation, left the historians barehanded and triggered off a series of false theories, to suit megalomaniacs and self proclaimed superior races to the detriment of fine past civilizations. These had been almost destroyed, but left monuments of fine social institutions, which could be, and in fact were, taken later as a model of modern democratic forms of government. To uncover these facts took Savli, Tomazic and Bor many years of study and research, followed by arguments and controversy, but at the end, in 1989, a jewel of historical discovery was published in Ljubljana and the bombshell exploded. "Veneti - nasi davni predniki", (The Venetians - our Ancestors"), a book of 528 pages, was presented to European historians and appears to have become for history the challenge of the century. The book has enormous value and consequence, and it is no wonder, that the "Veneto - mania" is mushrooming beyond the borders of tiny Slovenia, which is demonstrated to have been much greater in the past than the traditional historians were up till now prepared to admit. The German version of the book, "Unsere Vorfahren die Veneter", caused a stir among German historians and history teachers, so did in Italy and elsewhere the Italian edition, "I VENETI, progenitori dell'uomo Europeo". In Slovenia, the book was not welcome at first and the old school of scholars, who for centuries maintained that all the Southern Slavs, including the Slovenians, migrated in mass from the region of the Carpathian Mountains in the 6th century AD, tried to ignore it. But the bug didn't go away and the controversy is now raging unabated. To further expand, consolidate and make available to more people the knowledge of the new version of European history, Ivan Tomazic has spared no effort to prepare the English translation of the book. However, I should point out that there are enough Slovenians around the world reading English every day, who should be keen to see printed the history of their ancestors, encourage others to read it and should order the book in a number big enough to give Ivan Tomazic the sign to go ahead. For all our concerns, let it be known to everybody, the mask over the face of Slovenian history, conveniently used by German, Italian and Slavic interests to excuse their conquests, suppression of fine democratic systems and domination, has now been lifted and true history can and will restore the self confidence of a resurrected nation, the nation of the "Slov - Veneti", SLOVENIA. ------- The Veneti Wenden, Winden, Windische by Dr. Jožko Šavli A mysterious people, whose traces we encounter in the nomenclature and in the customs throughout Germany as well as in nearby countries. Their name reflects also the form of the present-day linguistic groups like Wenden (Sorben of Lusatia), Winden (Kashubi of Pomerania) or Windische (Slovenians) and also Veneti (in Veneto, Italy). Their traces are to be found in all territories between the Baltic and the Adriatic Sea, where today different nations live. Who were the Veneti? We must go back to the prehistoric period of the pre-Indo-European time. I prefer to call it rather the Afro-European period, because in those times of Mesolithic the same nomadic cultures extended practically from North Africa over Europe toward and still over the Ural. Around 4200 BC the first agrarian culture developed on the fertile loess grounds on the upper river basins in Central Europe. In archaeology it is called band ceramics, after the decorations on its vessels. It is characteristic that the social structure of this culture was based on the matriarchal. The power of this culture lasted to the end of the third millennium BC. Around 2000 BC there were incursions of nomadic people from the East who conquered Central and Western Europe. They were bearers of another type of culture called string ceramics, and their social structure was based on the patriarchal. They are called Indo-Europeans because of their linguistic area, which extends today from Europe to India. They impregnated the groups of fishers and hunters, but they did not destroy the agrarian group in Central Europe. On the contrary, the (Afro-European) agrarians continued to exist as a substratum under the (Indo-European) superstratum, and around 1800 BC a new culture called the Aunjetitz culture, with its center in Bohemia, began to flourish. Around 1500 BC it was followed by the potent Lusatian culture with its center in Lusatia (Luzice, Lausitz), that could be retained as the cradle of the people of Veneti. Their social structure was not based on patriarchal and not even on matriarchy, but father and mother were the head of the family. From the territory of the Lusatian culture many migrations took place into all parts of Europe, around 1200 BC. Many names are conserved until today especially in the territory between the Baltic and Adriatic Sea (Wind-, Wend-, Windisch...), we say that they were called Veneti or Vends by their neighbours. They spoke a language which was close to the present-day Sorbian, Kashubian and Slovenian, in general close to the languages of the Slavs, but they cannot be identified with them. Until today their substratum, as for instance in Germany, can be identified, irrespectively of the language, by some ethnic signs, especially by the fact that in the village life and culture the linden tree plays the chief role, whereas by the very Germanic and Celtic people this role belongs to the oak. It is important to say that the migrations were not initiated with the intention of conquest and subjugation, but by a religious message, as archaeology ascertains. Today one would say, that this message was the imagination of life after death and the doctrine of the salvation of the soul. It is still conserved in the religions in India (Vindia). They arrived there ca. 1000 BC and encountered in the Indus basin the Aryans from the preceded immigration (ca. 1800 BC). In Europe, after the migrations, a compact Venetian territory was installed between the Baltic and Adriatic Sea. The Veneti cremated their defunct and placed their ashes into urns, that were buried on large cemeteries called Urnfields. Therefore the name Urnfield culture dates back to their civilization and gives an imprint to the prehistoric Europe from Scandinavia to the Mediterranean. After 800 BC many cultures took on form in this territory, which altogether are called the Hallstatt culture (named after a rich finding place in the Eastern Alps). The most important regional cultures were those in the Alps and in the Po River basin: The cultures of Villanova, Golasecca, Este, Melaun, and Eastern Hallstatt. Here also the Situla art flourished. Among those cultures the Este culture is particularly very characteristic. During its period many inscriptions in Venetian writing appeared around 500 BC. Numerous examples of these inscriptions are conserved until today, and it is a very important fact, that the Slovene linguist Matej Bor was able to decipher many of them on the basis of the Slovenian and other Slav languages.  O S T I J A R E J The decipherment of the Venetian inscription (Ts 1) of a situla found close to Škocijan on the Karst, kept in the Archaeological Museum in Trieste. The meaning is still today comprehensible in Slovenian: Osti (remain), Jarej (young), in the sense: Drinking from this vessel, keeps you in good health and young (Matej Bor).  O S T I J A K O U S E D I C A The Venetian inscription (Tr 3) kept in the Museum of Treviso. The decipherment with the help of present-day Slovenian: Osti (remain), Jako (like), Usedi (sit down), Ca, pronounce: tcha (there). - Remain, like you sit down there (Matej Bor)  B U G O Š A S O V I Š A D The Venetian inscription from the Zila Valley (Gt 16), found at a site under the Plöcken/Pleke Pass (1360 m). Now it is kept in the Provincial Museum of Klagenfurt/Celovec (Carinthia). Decipherment in Slovenian: Bug (God), Oša (to go round), So (this), Viša (height). - Oh God that I would go round over this height (Matej Bor).  L Y K Z (e) M E L I N K(o) S H A J I C O S K A B (i) The Venetian inscription from Baca close Most na Soci (Idrija) (Is 3) which mean: Lyk (holiday), Zemelin (of the earth), Kos (when is), Haji (repose), Cos ka, pronounce: tchos ka (how so ever). - The holiday of earth when it is, repose, how so ever it may be (Matej Bor) After 400 BC the migration of the Celts enclosed Europe, except for several remote areas, like the Alps and Scandinavia. The Celts introduced another type of culture, the La Tčne culture, named after an important finding place in Switzerland. Their language was similar to that of the Veneti. However, their ethnic essence was very different. Their symbolic tree was the oak. Their social organization was not the community of the village (as in Veneti culture) but groups of kinship (Sippe, in German) based on patriarchal. Some of the Celtic people had influence on Venetian groups by giving them their names. Bohemia received its name from the Celtic Boi people. The Poles are called by their German neighbours Lechen and by the Ukrainians Ljahi, which refers back to the Celtic Volcae (Welschen). Here is another proof of the Celtic influence on these nations. In Poland, for instance, appears in people's tradition the Venetian linden tree and also the Celtic oak. Celtic influence did not touch the Kashubi (Winden, in German), who partially still conserve the name Slovinci. The Celts even reached the British Isles. There resided a population that belonged to the Atlantic culture, and who did not follow the footprints of the Celts, but nevertheless, they left them their name. Therefore, the present-day Celtic language (Inselkeltisch) is not their own original one, (Festlandkeltisch) which used to be almost equal to that of the Veneti. During the Roman era the Celtic groups were Romanized and gradually lost their original identity, even in the core of their Gaul territory. Only scattered names record their one-time presence. This was not the case with the Venetian substratum. In the centuries BC (the exact time is unknown) they arrived in the Eastern part of Europe where they superimposed their agrarian culture on Finnic fishers and pickers. This group of Veneti represented the Slovieni, which are mentioned by the chronicler Nestor around the year one thousand. From them originate as a linguistic group the Russians, Belorussians and Ukrainians. In Middle Europe the Veneti or better said Wends adopted gradually other languages, but they were for a long time identifiable by their juridical status which comprehended the ancient jus gentium. So the juridical book Sachsenspiegel (Saxonian Mirror, ca. 1275), by enumerating the juridical persons of the Medieval social system, alleges:... Sachse, Wende und Wendin, Jude... Incredible, after more then thousand years the influence of the matriarchy is still alive. Whereas in other nations in sense of the ancient patriarchal only the man has the juridical capacity, the same capacity belongs by the Wends (Veneti) also to the wife. In the following centuries the German feudal system spread over many provinces in Middle Europe, and therewith the German language was also spread. Gradually the modern German nation (Deutsche) began to form. But it is certain that the ancient Venetian substratum (Wenden) in this nation exceeds that of the ancient Germans (Germanen), but the German language today prevails nearly completely. The original language has been conserved only in two linguistic isles of the Sorbians in the Lower and in the Upper Lusatia (Nieder Lausitz und Ober Lausitz). -------
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Saturday, December 30th, 2006
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Re: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
I'd like to thank Mynnyd for sending me this link
Uniqueness in the heart of Europe - Origins of Slovenians: Veneti Anyway, I'll be honest here, I'm not really an expert on this Veneti theory, I just read few books and articles on internet, I was always more interested in medieval Slovenian history - I'll try to invite Slovenian nationalists who are experts about Veneti on this board.  -- Another good article... ------- The Vends and the Slavs The collapse of the Slav theory (ideology) Triglav and Svetovit by Dr. Jožko Šavli, FAS, KdB, FSAI Fellow of the Augustan Society Knight de Bryan Fellow of Sodality of the Ark International A nation, in sense of the national model of the 19th century, is still today stamped with an identification mark of a linguistic group. But such conception is definitely not true. For example, English speaking Americans, English/French speaking Canadians or Spanish speaking Mexicans... or even the four languages speaking Swiss, etc., each one of them must be defined as a nation. And it was not any different in historic and in pre-historic times. Such a question must also be connected with the origin of the so-called Slavs. They are only a linguistic "national" group, and certainly not an ethnical one. However, in sense of the 19th century conception, they were considered to be descendants of the "Ancient Slavs", like the Germans from the Ancient Germans. The ethnical group of "Ancient Slavs" was purely an academic construction. An easy demonstrable error, for they did never exist. Despite the fact, that the existence of the Slavs was only a matter of ideology and "national" pride, the pan-Slav movement needed a "historical" clue to confront the German nationalism. The latter propagated that the "Slavs" are inferior people from an historical point of view, and that only German expansionism into Slav territories could bring them social and cultural progress. Among the Slavs this propaganda triggered off the wide spread motto "Long live the Slavs" (ein Hoch den Slaven), an invention that provided a so-called common original homeland for the "Ancient Slavs". And this homeland could only be found in the territory of the greatest Slav nation, in Russia. So, the "Ancient Slavs" were collocated in the area behind the Carpathians. But this had never been proven! Nevertheless, such an idea about Slavs was introduced into scholastic systems and spread world-wide. Regardless of all this, the very truth concerning the Slavs is the very contrary. Historical records from the Roman period show, that only the Sarmatians are known in the area behind the Carpathians. North of them the Finnic groups were spread. These people were still nomads and hunters. In the territory of the Oder River and the Vistula Basins, the Roman records already quote the settlement of the Venethi (Vends). Surprisingly, at one-time the Lusatian Culture was spread in this area (1500 - 1100 BC), which was the cradle of the ancient Vends or Veneti (Wenden). Tacitus (ca. 56 - 117 AD) in his description of north-eastern Europe, he makes mentioning of Germans, Venethi, Peucini or Bastarni, Sarmati and Fenni. He is describing the Sarmati as nomads, and the Fenni as gatherers and hunters. The Peucini could only have been the Balts, although he presents them as a mixed group, which is very probable an error on part of his informers. Further, Tacitus comments: Venethi... nam quidquid inter Peucinos Fennosque silvarum ac montium erigitur latrociniis pererrant; hi tamen inter Germanos potius referuntur, quia et domos figunt et scuta gestant et peditum usu ac pernicitate gaudent... (Germania, 46). Translation: Vends... they are making raids through the woodland and mountain areas which arises between the countries of the Peucini and that of the Fenni, and they (Vends) are rather to compare with the Germans, for they got stable dwellings, they handle the swords and have a skilled and rapid infantry... Therefore I suppose, it must have been during the early Roman era, when a part of the Venethi (Vends) migrated towards East. They kept their original name Slovieni (Sloveni, Slovenci, Slovinci), and settled in the area of the present-day Sankt Petersburg (Pskov, Novgorod). Nestor is still recording them at the beginning of the 12th century. I infer from these and other facts, that the Venedic agriculture together with their language very quickly spread among the autochthon groups of nomads, gatherers and hunters there. In this way the so-called Eastern Slavs were born. Their social structure became that of the Vends, and they were organised in village communities. Their ethnical feature, however, remained for the most part in its originality. For example, they continued to worship the (Finnic) birch-tree. The rivers conserved Finnic names like Moskva, Oka, Kama etc. In their mythology, the highest God was Perun, who is identical with Perkunas, God of the Balts, and so on. In short, in an independent science study the distinction between the groups of Vends and Slavs (Eastern Slavs) clearly comes to the surface now.  A reconstruction of the settlement and citadel of the 7th/8th century AD, the fundaments of which were unearthed in Tornow, Kreis Calau (Lusatia). The very ancient division of the field of the individual farms and families, which is here evident, was characteristic for the Vendic village (vas) and its social and economical system. At that time the basis of the German social structure was the Clan (Sippe), and that of the Southern Slavs the Zadruga (great family) which continued to exist until 20th century. But the original Vendic territory also experienced immigrations, namely those of the Celts. On the European continent the Celts spoke a language very close to that of the Vends, although they were ethnical seen a diverse people. Their social organisation was the clan (Sippe, in German), and their tree of life was the oak. The Celtic groups, because of their very similar language, disintegrated with the Vendic people in no time. Their influence can be seen only in some particularities, for example: Bohemia got its name from the Celtic people of Boji (pronounce: boyi). In the area of Salzburg, Vienna, Bratislava, Prague, and also in southern Poland, archaeologists discovered many typical Celtic tombs. Another example is the oak tree, which can be found in Polish traditions. The non-palatalised sound k of the Celtic languages appears in Polish, whereas the Vendic tongue had this sound already palatalised in c (ts), for example: kwiet - cvet (blossom). And so on. In a short article like this one, I cannot render many examples of the above exposed extensive problem. In comparing the differences between the Vends (Western Slavs) and the Slavs (Eastern Slavs), I only wish to present two typical figures from Vendic mythology: God Triglav (the three-headed) and God Svetovit (the world-showing). Those and other deities do not appear in the mythology of Eastern Slavs (meaning Russians) and of Southern Slavs (Illyrians, Thracians), even though scientists are presenting to us a unique Slav mythology. Among the latter, the word Triglav was only used to describe a mountain range. - Further on, nationalistic German research workers like Schneeweiss (1935), Wienecke (1940), Kirfel (1948) and others, refused to accept that the Vends and Slavs made contributions to any higher cult and ascribed them as demonology only. With respect to the subject "Slavs are competing for their so-called national pride", lots of propaganda about national romanticism, scientific and ideological falsifications were published, and they are still in circulation. They are not exactly lies, but half-truth and half-lie disguised with academic titles given by their authors. Therefore it is not easy to filter the truth from lies. I wish to stress the point that a (common) mythology shared by all "Slavs" did not exist. This applies also to the fact, that the Slavs were never descendants of the (none existing) "Ancient Slavs" who at one-time should have lived and danced behind the Carpathians. Triglav At the beginning of the 12th century AD the Vendic people in Brandenburg and Pomerania were still of pagan belief. At that time, their biggest centre was Štetin (Stettin, Szcsecin) which is set on the mouth of the Oder River at the Baltic Sea. It is also today an important port, which belonged to Germany before WW2, but today it is Polish. We have the records from the chroniclers Ebbo (ca. 1155) and Monacus Prieflingensis (ca. 1160), who under the same title "Vita Ottonis episcopi bambergensis" report that in Štetin there was to be found, at that time, four pagan temples, and that the most important of them was dedicated to the god Triglav. His temple was high on a hill. Its walls were adorned inside and outside with human and animal shapes, painted with indelible colours. In the temple was kept a treasure of gold and argent cups, musical instruments, and decorated horns destined for libations. The God Triglav simulacrum had three golden heads. A veil covered his eyes and mouth. The priests said that if he did not see and speak, he nearly would simulate to ignore the human sins. The three heads represented his three dominations: heaven, earth, and underworld. His temple was encircled by a sacred hurst and grassland, in which a black horse pastured. The horse was used for presages. This happened in such a manner: the horse was led through nine lances, fixed in the soil; if he did not touch one, the presage was favourable, and vice versa. In 1127, Bishop Otto of Bamberg, the apostle of Pomerania, let destroy the Triglav simulacrum, and one of the heads was sent to the Pope in Rome. But another similar statue, situated on the nearby isle of Wollin, was saved, because the Vendic priests were hiding it.  The three-faced sink unearthed at the Magdalensberg (Šentlenska gora) in Carinthia, Roman period. It is very probable that it referred to the worshipping of the three-headed deity of Triglav. Back in history of Carantania (Slovenia), the worshipping of Triglav had already been testified during the Roman period, when the province of Noricum still flourished in this territory. On the one-time sacred mountain called today Magdalensberg (Šentlenska gora) in today's Carinthia, a three-faced sink had been unearthed, and a three-faced beaker was found in the nearby field of Svatne (Zollfeld). Because the Christianization of Slovenians dates back to the 8th century AD, only very few traces of worshipping former pagan deities have been preserved.  Mt. Triglav (2864 m) in Slovenia. It is called "three-headed" but it does not have three heads (summits). The name refers to the deity of the universe, which was first represented by a great mountain. However, the highest mountain in today's Slovenia, Mt.Triglav (1864 m), was very probable named after the one-time three-headed god as described above by the chroniclers Ebbo (ca. 1155) and Monacus Prieflingensis. This mountain does definitely not have three peaks (heads); therefore its name is certainly not a geographical, but only a mythological one. Such a statement was made already in A. T. Linhart's historical book (1791), in which he ascribed to Triglav three dominions: the atmosphere, the earth and the water. Svetovit  The Svetovit temple in Arcona on the island of Rügen or Rujana, in the Baltic Sea (reconstruction). The temple was destroyed by the Danish king Valdemar, in 1168 AD. On the vast island called Rujana in the Baltic Sea, today Rügen, there used to be on the site of Arcona a temple consecrated to god Svetovit (Svantevit, Sventovit). The chronicler Saxo Grammaticus described him in his "Gesta Danorum" (ca. 1190/1216) as a god of four heads. He was four-faced, as one can see on his other idols, preserved until today. The chronicler substantiated many facts, which reflect the role of this deity in the creed of the Vendic people in Rujana. In short, his relation to the people is as follows: The simulacrum of god Svetovit kept in his right hand a horn and in his left an arch. Once a year, after the crop, a holiday was celebrated in his honour. Whereas the people were waiting before the temple, the priest took from the simulacra the horn, which each year was filled to the top with wine. When a drop of wine was lost, a bad crop was predicted for the next year. Therefore, the priest ordered his people to conserve any disposable grain. If the horn seemed to remain full, a good crop was announced... The attributes of the god were a saddle, a bit and a magic sword. The temple of Arcona was built of wood and it was painted variously. Two fences encircled it. A white horse was dedicated to him, who could have been mounted or led to pasture by the temple priest only. The horse was also used for presages. When the people wanted to know the oracle concerning the next war, pales in three rows and in equal interwalls were set up before the temple. Then, after the prayers, the horse was led through the rows. If it began to step forward with the right foot, the prediction was propicious. When it only one-time made a step with the left foot, the prediction was inauspicious....  The Svetovit statue of Husiatyn (Zbrucs) close to Krakow in Poland as it was put once before the sconce. He was a fourheaded god. Each head faced a different direction. Svetovit's four heads were believed to oversee the universe from all directions, so that he would not miss anything. The temple of Svetovit in Arcona was destroyed by the Danish king Valdemar, in 1168 AD. But the worshipping of this god was spread into the much larger Vendic territory of that time. Proof of this is his magnificent statue found in Husiatyn (Zbrucs) near Krakow. http://www.carantha.net/3b26b2b0.gif A wooden figure in miniature that represents Sventovit with four faces, 9th century, Poland In the Roman period, the Greek writer Strabon (68 - 20 BC) reported that at the outspring of the Timava River east of Aquileia, there was the temple of Diomed at that time, and that the Vends (Veneti) of that area sacrificed a white horse to him each year. It is very possible that Diomed was only the Greek interpretation of Svetovit. The Adriatic Vends called him Belin (bel - white, clear). The symbolic colours of the sacred horses are very probably designed to demonstrate Triglav as the god of the universe and Svetovit as the god of the light and sun. They might have become the later mentioned Belobog and Cernobog (the white and the black god) of Lusatia. The "black" remained for the unknown universe, the "white" for the concrete life on earth. The god Svarog/Svarozic is a unique deity, who is to be found among the Vends and also among the Slavs (Eastern Slavs). Only Bishop Thietmar of Merseburg († 1018) mentioned him. In relation to his chronic, this god was worshipped in the town of Rethre or Riedegost, in the country of Redari (Mecklemburg-Strelitz). Several research workers insist that he did not pertain to the original phanthom of the Vends (Western Slavs). The well-known philologist Jagic (Vienna, 19th/20th century) considered him a result of very intensive commercial relations with Eastern Europe in that period. -------
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Thursday, January 11th, 2007
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Riferimento: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
Excuse me, what about the traditional classification of Veneti, Liburni, Carantani, Illyri, Albani, Dauni, Messapi, Iapigi, Rheti, Daci, Thraci as Thraco-Illyrian Peoples, who migrated in the Balcanic peninsula after the Hellenic Peoples, and who were conquered by Romans and then overcome by Germanic Peoples, Huns, Avaris, Hungars and Slavs, so that nowadays only Albanians still have mantained an Illyric language?
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Friday, January 12th, 2007
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Re: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
Yes, Franjo, your theory is right.
It just squares off many doubts I have about distinct venetian phenotipes one starts to encounter at least from Garda lake eastward There are many other populations that can be identified (gaulish and indoeuropeans), but still a strong strak of the ancient Venetians does exists. I had ever thought they were russian -or polish in origin, you have evidence of the ancient Veneti. A pilgrimage to Triglav becomes useful at this point.
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Sunday, January 28th, 2007
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Re: Riferimento: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
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Later Germanic people invaded Noric and Pannonia, but were later driven out by Teodoric. Other Slavs invaded Dalmatia and drove out Slovenians, those who left there were assimilated slowly. Avars came in 6th century, but never fully conquered Slovenian territory. Same with Hungarians. Venetic people at the times of Ceazar,  Many times you hear that it's a miracle that such small nation [Slovenians] survived trough history, but reality is, that today's Slovenians are what's left of much bigger nation. If you compare this map and current Slovenian ethnic map, you'll see that only people who lived in centre of the old Venetic ethnic teritorry survived.
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Sunday, January 28th, 2007
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Re: Riferimento: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
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Sunday, January 28th, 2007
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Re: Riferimento: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
Generally West Slavs are Weneds :? But "strange" people named Veneds was also in Lithuania, Scotland, Welsh and maybe on other places?
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Sunday, January 28th, 2007
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Re: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
The language of the old Veneti was akin to Italic languages and has nothing to do with Slovenian. You could only say that some Slovenians have genetic inheritance from the Veneti. That is debatable..
But Slovenian language is unquestionably Slavic.
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Sunday, January 28th, 2007
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Re: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
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It claims that 3000 years ago illirian populations coming from dalmatia settled there, carriěyng a rich iron related culture. Mogliano Veneto However many other websites tend to lose themselves in the dark of mythology (Venti as related to the ancient Trojans or coming from the Black Sea). Silvano Lorenzoni: I Veneti preromani nel contesto europeo
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Sunday, January 28th, 2007
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Re: Veneti - Slovenian Ancestors
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Poglej temo - Deset kažipotov iz preteklosti v slovensko sedanjost :: KARANTANSKA ZAVEZA Slovenians were identified with Veneti for a long time. Not so long ago, Prekmurjean Slovenians were considered to be "Vends" by Hungarians, or Germans (mainly those from Austria) who called Slovenians "Windisch" during WW2. Or, let's take a look back in ancient history... The important proof is this quote by St. Columbani (from year 615) "Termini Venetiorum, qui et Sclavi dicuntur", - land of Veneti, also named Slovenians (Sloveni), or from book Fredegarii Chronicon, where it's written "Sclavi coinomento Vinedos" (Sloveni named Vinedi) (from year 623) and Slovenian land was named "Marca Vinedorum" and it's lord "Walucus dux Winedorum". Take a look at this,  It says XI UTU SLOVONICU S TRUMUSIATII DONOM Fonetical - KI SI UT SLOVONICU S TRUMUŽJATJI DONOM In modern day Slovenian it would mean - (TI) KI SI OD SLOVENCEV, (PRIDI) Z DAROM TROMOŽJU The most important thing is that it mentions Slovenians (SLOVONICU), that's the most early mentioning of our nation, and it dates 2 centuries BC! If you understand Slovenian, I would also recomend you this link. Also, there are tausand of Slovenian names for cities where Veneti once lived before the imaginary migrations of Slavs in those lands in 6th century. Quote:
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