Dacians

[Timo]

Who were the Dacians and what happened to them?
I know the Dacians were the people who lived in the land (and later roman provence) of Dacia. They fought the Romans, and later became part of the Empire. However, I am unclear on their origins or exactly who there were; I cannot find good sources to explain my questions. Were they are Celtic people, like that of the Gauls, Celt-Iberians or Ancient Halstatt-Cutlure? Were they italic speaking people, or maybe greek or, I have even read suggested, albanian? What type of culture did they have and who were their dieties that they worshipped? Can these dieties be compared with other cultures to ascertain a connection between the peoples? What became of these people? Did they just interbreed with other migrating peoples and become extinct? Are they the ancestors to modern day Romanians or is there little connection between the two?

Some answers would be appreciated.

[Bulair]

They were a Thracian tribe, which later separated itself from the other Thracians (the Odrians) and created a rather powerful state.Their origins are still not quite clear, but they probably came from northern Europe.

[Timo]

@ Bulair: Thank you.

So it is established they were a Thracian off-shoot. What happened to them?
What culture did Thracians (and Dacians) have? Which family or group in the Indo-European tree do they belong to, Celtic, Greek, Slavic or something else?
If anyone has any links or other infomation, it would be apprieciated.

[Ebusitanus]

Trajan did major pwnership on them 1st Century AC




Trajan and his B1otch

[Archangelos]

Dacians are the ancestors of modern day Romanians. Many people claim the Thracians to be a separate Indo-European Race or some what connected to Illyrians, however as a person of Thracian Descendent, the Thracian were a barbarian Hellenic nation.

[Bulair]

And how do you know you are from Thracian descent?

The Thracians were probably a separate IE branch.

Btw according to recent finds they had a very advanced culture and their artwork is amazing, so they weren't so "barbaric" after all.Oh and Trajan means Thracian, so this is probably not his real name.

[Archangelos]

Well as a Bulgarian you most likely are of thracian descendent as well. I come from Eastern Thrace(European Turkey) and my village is now located in Western Thrace. My family has lived in the region for generations

I know about the recent findings, and your right they had a very civilized culture, i use the term barbaric, from the Athenian point of view, (although dont get me wrong, i cant stand Athenians, always thinking they are the pure and best of the Hellenic nation)

[Awar]

Dacians are considered to be a part of the Thracian people.
They spoke a Satem IE branch language. Their teritory is all over modern Balkans.
They are a local Balkan people.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Archangelos

Dacians are the ancestors of modern day Romanians. Many people claim the Thracians to be a separate Indo-European Race or some what connected to Illyrians, however as a person of Thracian Descendent, the Thracian were a barbarian Hellenic nation.

Thracians Hellenic?

[Archangelos]

Unless you have anything to add to the thread Croat, instead of one line replies, dont say anything at all.

[Zrinski]

Really? I don't think you are the one who will tell me what to or not to do....GREEK!

[Archangelos]

Im not going to sink to the level that you and your friends all share, as you can see your 'buddies' do nothing but get themselves ban, because they are unable to post civilized here. I suggest you dont follow down the same path as them. Now can we keep this thread on topic, with out the sad attempts to turn this into another Flame War, but the forums Croatian members.

[Awar]

Originally Posted by Zrinski

Thracians Hellenic?

There are some scientists who say that. Beats me why.
Their language comes off as a sort of Hellenic/Slavic/General IE cross.

[Zrinski]

Originally Posted by Awar

There are some scientists who say that. Beats me why.
Their language comes off as a sort of Hellenic/Slavic/General IE cross.

Well either way thats pure BS. Thracians don't have nothing to do with Hellenic culture. They had their own culture and their own language.

It is my personal opinion that Thracians besides Dacians were related to Macedonians and Illyrians as well.

Originally Posted by Archangelos

Im not going to sink to the level that you and your friends all share, as you can see your 'buddies' do nothing but get themselves ban, because they are unable to post civilized here. I suggest you dont follow down the same path as them. Now can we keep this thread on topic, with out the sad attempts to turn this into another Flame War, but the forums Croatian members.

You are already way below my level so you can't sink anywhere. Furthemore you don't have any moral right to suggest me anything.

[Bulair]

They were partly hellenized, but that doesn't make them hellenic.

[Zrinski]

Hellenized is a relative term. If we take into consideration that Ancient Greek language was the lingua franca of that time in Europe we can conclude that we are today anglicized since English is the main language most people communicate.

[Timo]

Originally Posted by Bulair

They were partly hellenized, but that doesn't make them hellenic.

If you go to the eytmology of the word. It would make them Hellenistic at the very least. The point, however, is still debatable.

The definitions would be:

• Hellenic = Of or relating to the ancient Hellenes, their language, or their history; Greek.
• Hellenistic = Of or relating to postclassical Greek history and culture from the death of Alexander the Great to the accession of Augustus.

[Tarabos]

Dacians were initialy a tracian people, which spread over modern Romania about 6 century BC. Initialy they were called by the greeks, gets. Till first century BC, they formed small kingdoms, cohabiting on the teritory with many other ethnic tribes, especialy celto-germanics, but also scitics. Since they were the only who remained there in masses, they asimilated over the centuries the remaints of the celto-germanics and scitians, and this, influenced their language and blood, but not so much the culture, which remained, mainly, tracic and genuine one. Initialy, they inherited some tracian gods, like Bendis(moon god) and Gebeleizis(sun god), but, in time, they developed their own culture and religion. They becomed to develop very much the religion current of imortality, maybe under the influence of the germanic asimilated populations - the ideea to not fear of death, death is only a transition to another better world. This was mixed with the increasingly traditions of many little god and godness, which were related especialy to the mountains phenomenons. Initialy, the little kingdoms were centerd all over the teritory, but, in time, all the tribes centered in mountaineouss areeas. This was, probably, a reaction against the migratory foes: the bulk of the population retreat to the mountains when a migrationist wave arosed, and, then, the tribes unified and relegated the foes, or made them insiders. Around 3-2 century BC, a new god arosed: Zamolxis, who becomed the main god; the legend says Zamolxes was initially a philosopher who retreat in the dacian mountains(holly mountain Kogayon), and transformed himself in a god(an early kind of messiah). At the half of the first century BC, the king Burebista succeded in unify all the dacian small kingdoms, and formed a huge kingdoom, spreaded from the river Tisa, in wast, to river Nister, in east, from Moravia, in north, to balkan mountains, in south. He, also, conquered the greek colonies from the shore of Black Sea. His army is said to been over than 200 000 peoples, and it seems the romans becomed very concerned about the size of his army. His capital was also, situated in the mountains, even many economic centers were spreaded on the plain or sea-shore. The dacians becomed an ancient peoples who loved mountains, in contradiction with other ancient powerfull peoples, who considered mountaineous areeas useless and dangerous. They learned to subsist in large number at the mountains, herding in large number animals which were well adapted to mountaineouss conditions, minning and exploiting the timber. Burebista was killed by a conspiracy, in 44 BC, and his mighty kingdom divided again in many small realms. Only at the end of the first century AD, the king Decebalus succeded again to unify the dacians. It seems his kingdoom was not such large like the one of Burebista, but he succed to made an alliance with the remainder tribes. also he developed very much the gold mining, and payed many roman soldiers and engineers to develop his economy and army. in fact, his army becomed such powerfull, that the romans, failling to defeat him, agreed to pay large tribute. In this way, the dacians becomed, at the end of the first century BC, the public enemy n°1 for the roman Empire. Traianus succeded to convince the senate to allocate latge summs of moneys to a dacian campain. He gathered 13 legions(unprecedented roman army) against the dacians, and, after 6 years of bloody wars, he succeded to destry the decebalus alliance, and to conquer his kingdom. He conquered half of the dacians total teritory, destroyed the dacian state, and menaced the unconquered dacians with another campain and dire punishments, only if they dare to establish a new dacian state. (I'll continue...)

[Tarabos]

After the roman conquest, the dacians were relegated from all the fertile lands from the new roman province. Many of them were enslaved, many recruted in roman army, but the majority had to manage to live in the mountaineouss areeas. this was not something new for them, but, the problem was that the mountaineouss areea becomed overpopulated. In the unconquered dacian land from north, the dacian tribes founded themselves lacking the add of the dacians from southern roman province. in face of the migratory peoples, they, also, step by step, were forced to retry in mountaineouss areeas, with the same problem: overpopulation. thus, the dacians found themselves united again, but, this time not in a state, but in a difficult situation. Between the mountaineous areea of the roman province and free dacians, was never any kind of border, and many querrel took places between romans and dacians. Finaly the romans was forced to recognise they have to solve the dacians overpopulation problem, and allow them to spread south, in the balkan mountains, where the highlands were underpopulated by the original tracian populations, because of the roman urbanisation. The spreading took place, also, in northern mountains, till Tatra, where the dacians had not to ask allowance from someone, because the highland were never populated. But the spreading in south was more tempting, because the dacians can change their products with whealty roman citizens. More, they becomed roman citizens, and because romans realised that, due of dacians, the mountaineouss teritories could provide revenues, granted them with preferential taxations, and other special rights, through a law knowed like "The Ancient Dacian(latter valachian) Law". On the other hand, the many dacians were free to acceed to administration and army. The romans continued to consider dacians like savages, but, between them arosed a kind of friendship and reciprocal respect. The real latinisation of the dacians, begun with the roman retrival from the former Dacia province, in 275-300. In front of the barbaric invasion, the poor latin citizens, asked for shelter to dacians, in the mountains. The dacians, actualy, never deserted Dacia mountains, but they lived also in the barbaric and roman balkanic mountains. Between the two mountaineouss zones was never a border, like before. In the barbaric zones, all the following masters accepted "The dacin Ancient Law", because it brought revenues. In the balkans, the phenomen of latinisation continued with each barbaris invasion, till all latin urban population dispeared, instead appeared the "vlachs"(7 century). The vlachs, are, in fact, not latinised dacians, neighter remaints of the latin populations, but "dacianised" latins. Because of the multi-secular interferation, the latin "intruders" succeded to impose their language, but, otherway, they adopted most of the dacian culture and way of life.

[Monolith]

Originally Posted by Tarabos

The vlachs, are, in fact, not latinised dacians, neighter remaints of the latin populations, but "dacianised" latins. Because of the multi-secular interferation, the latin "intruders" succeded to impose their language, but, otherway, they adopted most of the dacian culture and way of life.

Interesting. Have any source for this?