From Swastika to Thunderbird

[Feldherr]

In English

For the first 15 years of its existence, members of the 45th Infantry Division proudly wore on their left shoulders an ancient American Indian symbol of good luck, most commonly referred to as the swastika. The insignia served as recognition of the great number of Native Americans proudly serving in the 45th Infantry Division. The yellow swastika on a square background of red symbolized the Spanish Heritage of the 4 Southwestern states that made up the membership of the 45th—Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, and Arizona. A similar symbol was adopted by the Nazi party in the late 1920’s, and as the N.S.D.A.P. rose to power in 1933 the symbol became so closely associated with fascist socialism that it had to be abandoned as the insignia of the 45th Infantry Division.

For many months division members wore no insignia, while the design for a new emblem was being explored. The 45th Infantry Division held a contest to assist in selection of the new insignia and many designs were submitted. The contest was overseen by a board of officers who eventually determined the Thunderbird would become the new insignia of the 45th Infantry Division. In keeping with the tradition formerly established, it was also decided to maintain the same colors and design of the original insignia.

In 1939 after approval of the Commanding General, Eighth Corps Area, and the Chief of the National Guard Bureau, the Thunderbird design was officially approved by the War Department and authorized for manufacture and wear. The document approving the design, which was to become famous in World War II and the Korean War, stated that, the Thunderbird was a Native American symbol signifying "sacred bearer of happiness unlimited."

Swastika English



In German

Bis in die Anfänge der dreißiger Jahre war das linke Schulterstück der 45th Infantry Division, mit einer goldenen Swastika auf roten Untergrund versehen.
Während der ersten fünfzehn Jahre des Bestehens der 45. Infanterie Division der US-Army, trugen die Mitglieder dieser Division stolz auf ihrer linken Schulter ein altes Glücksymbol, die Swastika, in Gelb auf einem quadratischen roten Hintergrund.

Aber als die Swastika von Adolf Hitler und seiner Nazi Partei in Deutschland während der 30er Jahre benutzt wurde, wurde es als abstoßend angesehen, dieses Symbol als das Abzeichen der 45. Infanterie Division weiterhin zu benutzen, so trennte man sich schließlich von diesem.

Nach Angaben von Brigade General Ross. H. Routh (Ret.) sollte dieses Schulterstück folgendes symbolisieren.
Die vier geraden Seiten des roten Hintergrundes verwiesen auf vier Bundesstaaten Oklahoma, Neues Mexiko, Colorado und Arizona, in denen die Mitglieder 45. Infanterie Division stationiert waren. Die Farben Rot und Gelb symbolisierten das spanische Erbe der Gebiete und die Swastika wurde auserwählt, da sie ein Symbol des Glückes und Schutzes der Kultur der Indianer war.

Viele Monaten lang wurde kein Schulterstück an dieser Stelle getragen, bis man sich nach schwieriger Auswahl hunderter Design für den Thunderbird entschied.
Der Thunderbird entstammt auch aus dem alten Kulturerbe der Indianer und verheißt und wünscht dem Träger dieses Symbols "Heiligen Schutz und
unbegrenztes Glück" zu haben.


Sowjetunion - Die Swastika im Militärausweis der ehemaligen Sowjetarmee

Das lässt nun alle Fragen offen.
Die Verwendung der Swastika als Symbol im Ausweisdokument der Sowjetarmeeangehörigen, während die Bevölkerung in der ehemaligen DDR mit unter Repressalien, Schikanen und übelsten Beschimpfungen und Beleidigungen durch die Angehörigen, Frauen, Kinder und Jugendliche, der dort stationierten Offiziere und Kommandeure ausgesetzt waren, durften die sogenannten Rotarmisten wie die Soldaten der Roten Armee so genannt wurde, selber die Swastika für ihr persönliches Glück verwenden.
Hier liegt doch wieder der Gedankenzug nahe, das die Alliierten, die Swastika und deren Verwendung in Deutschland verboten wurde, und wohl keine Glück für einen Neuanfang gewünscht wurde, während sie selber dieses Sinnbild des Glückes uneingeschränkt für sich verwenden durften.



Swastika German

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Very interesting. The 45th Division was the unit of the author Colonel Howard A. Buechner who was also a medical doctor and became a professor later in life. He wrote two books along with a German, "Kapitan Wilhelm Bernhart" (a pen name) titled: "Hitler's Ashes" and "Adolf Hitler and teh Secrets of the Holy Lance". Kapitain Bernhart is or was now living in the USA but during the war he was an officer on U-530 which surrendered not in May, 1945 but in July, 1945 at Mar del Plata, Argentina. These authors say some fantastic things about Neuschwabenland, German secret weapons, SS survival groups, and mention that they suggest that at least one German U-boat was fitted with a totally new and amazing power source whose energy could not be exhausted and powered this vessel silently and very quickly.


Buechner, the Coloner and medical doctor, was among the first people and the first doctor to enter Buchenwald Concentration Camp and he has some very interesting comments about that moment.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Feldherr

The insignia served as recognition of the great number of Native Americans proudly serving in the 45th Infantry Division. The yellow swastika on a square background of red symbolized the Spanish Heritage of the 4 Southwestern states that made up the membership of the 45th—Oklahoma, New Mexico, Colorado, and Arizona.

I still don't understand why the swastika would be chosen to symbolize the Spanish Heritage.

[Feldherr]

@Mynydd

That I cannot say to you for the moment yet, but I will procure myself this information. I took these writings in such a way to the knowledge, as it stands on the side (Klick)>> 45th Division Museum written. But someone knows an answer much from the other members?

Respect Feldherr

[Appalachian]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

I still don't understand why the swastika would be chosen to symbolize the Spanish Heritage.

Perhaps it should more accurately have said "Hispanic heritage," which in the US is commonly taken to be synonymous with "mestizo." (Yes, I know they are not necessarily the same thing.) Here, even Mexicans and Puerto Ricans are often referred to (and like to refer to themselves) as "Spanish."

[Menydh]

Wrong too. Hispanic should only apply as an adjective to the peoples and cultures of ancient Hispania.

And while they continue to call the South and Central Americans Hispanics, I will feel free to label anything coming from the Afro-American camp as Anglo-Saxon. So Martin Luther King, for example, was an Anglo-Saxon.

But that wasn't the point. The point is that the swastika is supposedly an Indo-European symbol. The Iberian Peninsula, Hispania, is overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European, Old European or R1b.

[Quintos]

In Spain alot of Indo-European/Germanic tribes setteled people such as the Celts,Visigoths etc. but you are right the primary heritage of Spain is probably Med./Alpine/Celt mixes so the swastika might match Spanish heritage slightly but I also find it rather surprising why they would chose that to represent Spanish heritage.

[Menydh]

Yes, but the word Celts must be taken with care. It was more of a limited adstratum over an indigenous population, with a spread of a culture from Central Europe. The substratum remained, and the same happened in the British Isles, and modern Southern and Western France.

However, there are a few ancient example of a swastika-like symbol, like this ancient Cantabrian estela de Zurita (little known):

[Appalachian]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Wrong too. Hispanic should only apply as an adjective to the peoples and cultures of ancient Hispania.

Yes, I understand that and stated as much in my post. "Should" is the operative word, however.

And while they continue to call the South and Central Americans Hispanics, I will feel free to label anything coming from the Afro-American camp as Anglo-Saxon. So Martin Luther King, for example, was an Anglo-Saxon.

Whatever.

But that wasn't the point. The point is that the swastika is supposedly an Indo-European symbol. The Iberian Peninsula, Hispania, is overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European, Old European or R1b.

The swastika was also quite a popular symbol among many nations of Amerindians and Mesoamerican nations; thus it is no surprise that it would be associated with Amerindians and mestizos.

[Aguellid]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

However, there are a few ancient example of a swastika-like symbol, like this ancient Cantabrian estela de Zurita (little known):

Is that a celtiberian artefact!?.

I was greatly surprised when I discovered that the swastika is also an ancient (pre-islamic) berber symbol.


Next time when I'll visit my village in the atlass, I'll check my familly's old carpets.

Source : Berber Symbols

[Dr. Solar Wolff]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

Wrong too. Hispanic should only apply as an adjective to the peoples and cultures of ancient Hispania.

And while they continue to call the South and Central Americans Hispanics, I will feel free to label anything coming from the Afro-American camp as Anglo-Saxon. So Martin Luther King, for example, was an Anglo-Saxon.

But that wasn't the point. The point is that the swastika is supposedly an Indo-European symbol. The Iberian Peninsula, Hispania, is overwhelmingly pre-Indo-European, Old European or R1b.

The word "Hispanic" in the US is a euphemism for people south of our border. Brazil seems to have embraced mixed heritage but in other countries any Indian blood has traditionally been looked down upon. In parts of South America those of inferior status address those of superior status as "Blanco". By using the term "Hispanic", their non-Caucasian ancestry is downplayed and this word is how most of those with mixed ancestry self-identify.

In Mexico City, for example, some people there are not mixed. Vicente Fox is an example of this social class. These people have always been more sensitive to being lumped together with those of part-Caucasian ancestry.

[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Aguellid

Is that a celtiberian artefact!?.

No. Cantabrian.

I was greatly surprised when I discovered that the swastika is also an ancient (pre-islamic) berber symbol.


Next time when I'll visit my village in the atlass, I'll check my familly's old carpets.

Source : Berber Symbols[/quote]Interesting symbols.

Perhaps you could write some text on the Imazighen. Supposedly they spread from North Western Africa (included The Canary Islandas) to Egypt and through the Sahara.

[Caesar Princeps]

Not the swastika (Native American symbol), but the colours: gold and red, the same of Spain.