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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternitas

Orderly, perhaps... The Inquisition was one of the most feared repression instruments the world had known.

You haven't bought into this old black myth, have you?
Et tu, BM?

Along with Galilleo and the Crusades, the Inquisition is one of three historical instances which have been re-written to reflect a distinct anti-Catholic bias.

Here's the refuting of this particular myth:

http://irish-nationalism.net/forum/s...ead.php?t=1255
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternitas
Until they suspended his authority
I dont believe that ever happened.

Quote:
Yes, the original plan was to try and convert Cathars. But as you know, this was not successful...
Kinda hard to peacefully convert people who are trying to kill you don't you think?

Quote:
Not quite everything, but a lot of history revolves around power and wealth
Alright, since Im in a good mood and you're a faily decent and likeable person; I'll give this one. Consider yourself lucky!

Quote:
Orderly, perhaps... The Inquisition was one of the most feared repression instruments the world had known.
Not really. Recent scholarship has been shedding new light on the institution(especially with the opening of the Vatican archives). In fact this thread may interest you:
Quotes on the Spanish Inquisition
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"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milesian
You haven't bought into this old black myth, have you?
Et tu, BM?
Perhaps she needs to spend some time in the comfy chair BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
__________________
"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milesian
Et tu, BM?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perun
I dont believe that ever happened.
Didn't they suspend the authority of bishops in favour of legates sent by the Pope? I've read that Innocent the IIIrd did so in 1204.
Quote:
Perhaps she needs to spend some time in the comfy chair BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Bah. Dreaming is not a crime
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternitas
Didn't they suspend the authority of bishops in favour of legates sent by the Pope? I've read that Innocent the IIIrd did so in 1204.
Not that Im aware of. I could be wrong though, but that would've been odd for a medieval papacy to do.

Quote:
Bah. Dreaming is not a crime
We're making an exception with you, you're special!
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"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perun
Not that Im aware of. I could be wrong though, but that would've been odd for a medieval papacy to do.
Well I've read several (offline) sources concerning Cathars and this Crusade stating this, as well as the fact that a lot of the locals were anticleric, well, actually tired of paying taxes to the church and Papal authority was resented.

Someting I found online:
Quote:
For nine years, Innocent III had monks preaching in the heretical provinces of Languedoc urging the bishops and princes to persecute, but they were quite ineffective. Even the local bishops rejected the extraordinary authority the pope had conferred upon these monks, and, in 1204, he suspended the authority of the bishops. His chief legate, Pierre de Castelnau, received instructions in 1207 to arrange a warlike campaign of the princes, and he excommunicated Raymond VI, count of Toulouse, as an abettor of heresy.
Source

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We're making an exception with you, you're special!
All 'heretics' are
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternitas
Well I've read several (offline) sources concerning Cathars and this Crusade stating this, as well as the fact that a lot of the locals were anticleric, well, actually tired of paying taxes to the church and Papal authority was resented.

Someting I found online:

Source
Alright I stand corrected. I was mistaken. Im largely arguing off the top of my head at the moment.

Quote:
All 'heretics' are
Stroking our ego a bit are we?
__________________
"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Jesting. I expected a thread on heretics to attract Catholics
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternitas
Jesting. I expected a thread on heretics to attract Catholics
Why am I not suprised?

Oh well, at least Im enjoying this discussion.
__________________
"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternitas
Jesting. I expected a thread on heretics to attract Catholics
See, everyone wants to attact us.
We are so irresistable
__________________
The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milesian
See, everyone wants to attact us.
We are so irresistable
"One thing in this world is different from all others. It has a personality and a force. It is recognized and (when recognized) most violently hated or loved. It is the Catholic Church. Within that household the human spirit has roof and hearth. Outside it is the night."
--Hilaire Belloc, Letter to Dean Inge
__________________
"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Tuesday, May 24th, 2005
Milesian's Avatar
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Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.Milesian 's wisdom is legendary.
Default Re: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
In other words, it's big and it's cool.
'Nuff said
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The traditions of the Irish people are the oldest of any race in Europe north and west of the Alps, and they themselves are the longest settled on their own soil
- Edmund Curtis (A History of Ireland: From Earliest Times to 1922)

The Irish are one of the most ancient nations that I know of at this end of the world, and are from as mighty a race as the world ever brought forth.
For it is certain that Ireland hath had the use of letters very anciently and long before England; that they had letters anciently is nothing doubtful, for the Saxons of England are said to have their letters and learning, and learned men, from the Irish.
- Edmund Spenser (writer, and British Government Official in Ireland, AD 1596).

The renaissance began in Ireland seven hundred years before it was known in Italy. And Armagh, the ecclesiastical capital of Ireland, was at one time the metropolis of civilisation.
- Arsene Darmesteter, Professor of Old French and Literature

Ireland can indeed lay claim to a great past; she can not only boast of having been the birthplace and abode of high culture in the fifth and sixth centuries . . . but also of having made strenous efforts in the seventh and up to the tenth century to spread her learning among the German and Romance peoples, thus forming the actual fountain of our present continental civilisation.
- Heinrich Zimmer, Professor of Celtic and Sanskrit, Member of the Prussian Academy of Sciences
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Old Wednesday, May 25th, 2005
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Default AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milesian
See, everyone wants to attact us.
We are so irresistable
Wants? As this were avoidable. Wherever heresy roams, one will find a Catholic
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Old Wednesday, May 25th, 2005
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Default Re: AW: Re: AW: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeternitas
Wants? As this were avoidable. Wherever heresy roams, one will find a Catholic
Oh dont deny your inner feelings, we are irresistable!
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"Everything begins in mysticism and ends in politics."
--Charles Peguy

"Love for a man's own nation must not make a man into a wild animal, which tears down and provokes revenge; it must make him more noble, so that he can gain the respect and love of other nations for his nation. Therefore love toward your own nation is not contradictory to love for the whole of mankind; they complement each other. All of the nations are children of God."
--Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac, 1938
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Old Thursday, June 19th, 2008
Antikosmikos
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Default Re: Catharism, the religion of the Cathars
Hello

My ancestors were Cathars of Piedmont, and I'm now trying to recover this inheritance. Unfortunately, I found this place too late, it seem to be abandoned...
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Old Friday, June 20th, 2008
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