[Ostrogorski]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

You would have to give some evidence before any credit can be given to your words. Most nations having an ethnogenesis which predates the existance of Freemasonry, your statement sounds a bit bizarre to say the least.

obviously,you don't understand what I wrote...I was not talking about ethnogenesis of nations,I was talking about countries...take Italy for example...Garibaldi was a mason,count Cavour,or whatever his name is,was mason also...or France or Germany,Holland,or countries that emerged after the deconstruction of Austro-hungarian empire...I think that we can agree that idea of modern nation-states is a masonic idea...

thanks for this brief history of Spaniards...

Originally Posted by Mynydd

France, in contrast, is a state composed by different nations with a much varied ethnic composition. Italy too is a state with a particular composition of its own.

well,since the beginning of the French state,French kings fought to unite their country and create unique French nation...and they succeeded...no offense,but who are you to tell them that they are not one nation?

In the end, no nation is equal to another, nor there is a state equal to the next. However, the difference between state and nation is clear and should be given careful consideration.

you are mixing up nationalism with ethnicism...

The problem of the Ulster is different. The Ulster is an Irish province which is currently divided between a part in Ireland and another part which is invaded by Britain. It is not a mere case of indepence, but of freedom and reunification with the rest of the Irish nation.

I'm not the right person to talk about this and I don't want to play a lawyer to the British...ask for a British opinion on this subject,not just Irish...

I will speak only of the Basques here. If they want to secede, it will be a tragedy (for the Basques and, in a lesser form, for the rest of the Spanish). But in the end it is the consequence of Spain having suffered from a foreign jacobine and centralist, alien artificial system of state

Primo de Rivera once said that Spain is a common destiny of all Spaniards... If you can find that article,read it again...no regional or individual interest can be above
the interest of community,in this case,known as Spain - that is basic fact of every nationalism...

It is the deconstruction of [natural] nations into [artificial] states which is an error of magnitude. Not the opposite.

I think we have a problem understanding each other in this subject...Nation isn't created at once and forever...Nation is based on the past,but does not live in past,it lives in the present time and in the future...there are also terms like Patriotism and Chauvinism...

Patriotism is a heathen word,and it means love toward the land of our fathers,and a love for one's country and it's government...Serbs have a word that is close to patriotism,it's rodoljublje,and it means love for our kin...this word is closer to Christianity,because it means love toward people that are,in spiritual and biological sense,close to us...we can also use word "Ethnicism"(or "Ethnophilia" in Greek)...

Chauvinism is something very different...it's excessive love toward everything that is authentically ours...it is a sign of backwardness,because it doesn't allow any critics toward nation and it doesn't helps one nation self-improvement...

Nationalism is wider and deeper than,both,Patriotism and "Ethnophilia"("Ethnicism" or rodoljublje)...it's goal is to reveal the essence of nation's historical task and it's eternal values...nationalism is a love toward the spirit of own nation...to be a part of a nation means blood relationship,common socio-cultural connection and education...nationalism without faith is incomplete...nationalism is love toward fatherland,own kin,and self-sacrificing as a result...

Nation is not always a ethnic category...it's not a folk(ethnic term),and it's not just population(democratic term)...as I said,it's wider and deeper than that...

Serbs as a nation,are not a uniform ethnic structure,neither are any other nations in the world...there are Dinarids,Meds,Alpids,Nordids and Baltids among Serbs...we were Nordid and Baltid Slavs and we've mixed ourselves with indigenous Dinarid and Mediterranid population of the Balkans...

if we follow your analogy,then that means that every stinking village in the Balkans can be a nation for itself...this practically means that we are not a nation of Serbs but rather a bunch of Belgradians,Novosadians,,Prishtinians,Moravians,Sirmians,Banatians,Bacsians,
Kosovars,Montenegrins,Bosnians etc.