[Awar]

Originally Posted by Mynydd

So, in your hypothetical perfect state, you would admit a religion like Judaism which is based on an ethnic group?

Why not? As long as they don't break any laws.

In my perfect state I wouldn't allow you any near the Ministry for Foreigners, nor the police secretary for customs and borders.
Unless you have told yet that you plan to get them into ghettoes, where they can practice even homosexuality to the point of extintion if they so wish.

I think that's a thing of personal preference. Nothing to be persecuted, but also nothing to be advertized.

You said that Agnosticism would have an official status. Are you saying now that the people would not be influenced by the State, when there is an official stance?

I insist in that you are most probably not thinking of a state with an official position on religious on agnosticism, but a laicist state. That would be much different since the state would, ideally, take no party nor would it try to influence.

My preferred stance would be that 'through no humanly way is it possible for us to know for certain that deities exist. So, there will be no speculation'

But even then, only ideally since the evidence here in Spain is of a supposedly laicist state which is continuously attacking the beliefs of the majority of the people.

Well, the problem with religions is that they have their own laws,
while the laws of the government must be above the religious laws.
Basically, anything which is based in logic and fact must be above
things based in irratio and blind belief.

You missed your chance then. Hope they'll realize that you are not worth the waiting.

Yeah, I told 'em: "Chicks, I'm sorry, I can't discuss religion with you tonight, we'll just have to act like atheist animals we are"

Had your ancestors trashed Christianism and embraced Islam, there would have been no reason to fight the Ottoman and instead to become a willing part of the Ottoman Empire.

Well, muslims kicked each other's asses just as much as there was christian vs. muslim ass-whooping, and then even the Mongols came and whooped some both Christian and Muslim ass, and when they converted to Islam, they whooped some more Muslim ass during Tamerlane.

In fact, right after the battle of Kosovo, Bayezid, the Turkish sultan
got his ass handed to him by Tamerlane at the battle of Angora.

And today Serbia, together with Albania, would be the Western fringes of the Ottoman world. Or, worse, the Ottoman Empire would have expanded further West since they would have no opposition in the Balkans. And you know that well, Awar.

Only partially true, and you know that well, Mynydd

But all of a sudden you seem to come with a light kempian version of the racial wars.

LoL, actually, my idea is the exact opposite. I think everything can be explained by socio-political-economical factors.

Interesting definition of Albanians. Wouldn't you be today the hillibillies if your ancestors had not stuck to their Christian faith, and then found out that it was more convenient for them to do favours to the Ottomans?

My ancestors were hillbillies who used to have a powerful empire, and lost it to the Ottomans,
and that heritage kept them afloat.

See the reconquista in Spain. It wouldn't have happened if the nobility wasn't eager to conquer and reconquer land. The people wouldn't have just risen up and fought a religious war if there wasn't for the elite who had economic reasons for the wars.