[Weltschmerz]

Originally Posted by Marulus

I just say that also the tradition is to be taken into account when talking about Christianity and its degree of rootedness into Judaism.

And I agree about that. Where did I say otherwise?

Originally Posted by Marulus

But I accept that also attempt can be made to interpret New Testament as such. However, we all have our preconceptions, our ideas, independently from whether we are or are not Catholics.

I'm not making puns at you for being a Catholic. I'm not saying that it is impossible for a Catholic to interpret the New Testament independently.

Originally Posted by Marulus

There was such a prohibition for some time in earlier centuries. And I don't think it was good.

I have heard about it too.

Originally Posted by Marulus

Where did I say that?

I didn't say that you said it. I said "To say that ...".

Originally Posted by Marulus

Just for your information, I am not one of those folklore Cath'lics. I was not raised in that way (I was not even baptized as a child), it is my personal choice in adult age. Everything, absolutely everything I say and write on this board and what I speak in real life about religion, comes exclusively from my own convictions, which is result of reading, independent thinking and asking theologians and priests. So, please, don'0t confound me with floklore Cath' lics (not that I have anything against those people, or that I despise them, just saying I am not one of them). If anything, I can't stand "cultural Christianity" without faith.

I didn't really, did I?

Marulus:

Once again I refer to the fact that the Israelites of Paul's times were something entirely different than Talmudic Jews of today. This also has to be taken into account. What would he say about Talmudists, who built an entire sophisticated tradition around the rejection of Christ and a new book (Talmud), for which they claim that it surpassed the Old Testament. Is he said something concerning the Israelites of his time, does it refer to Jews of all times? Not necessarily.

I don't understand where you get this from. It's not from me.

Errigal:

It would seem to me the only reasonable reading of that passage in Romans Chapter 11 would be that the Jews broke their covenant with God when they rejected Christ but that they would be welcomed back by God if they accepted Christ and his teachings. The Jews who did not accept Christ are not forever cursed but they are also no longer the Chosen. They are the branches broken off from the olive tree when they failed to accept Christ.

Something like that, once you try to cancel out the apparent contradictions. I agree. But the perspective is obviously Judaeic, through and through. Why is it so important for Paul to stress that the Jews are the natural branches of the olive tree?