[Marcus Marulus]

Originally Posted by Ginnungagap

I think Abrahamic religion is fine, for Semitic cultures.

Define "Semitic cultures".

Originally Posted by Ginnungagap

Where I object is when this model has been placed onto other cultures and created a subversive movement of globalism and a rising of the mercantile caste over warrior aristocracies and priesthoods.

I understand that when Christianity is interpreted intelligently it can be quite a fine and noble religion, but we rarely see this in practice; especially in the modern age.

A similar kind of argument can be often heard from those dismissing any sort of nationalism or identity or partcularism, saying that it inevitably leads to hatred, eternal warfare etc.

Originally Posted by Ginnungagap

Back what Marulus said about martyrs and knights. Knights were born out of what has come to be called Männerbünde and a vital component of Feudal societies which exemplify the sense of Hierarchy pre-Christian European cultures had. These sorts of organizations were found all throughout Indo-European cultures, and persisted through Christian times. Just because Christianity happened to be the major religion of the medieval period doesn't make it responsible for these organizations coming about.

I heard that theory, namely that knghthood has its distant origins in old Germanic Männerbünde, and I don't say it is entirely implausible. There might be something to it. But there can be no doubt that Christianity shaped chivalry, to a certain extent, even though it may not have been an originally Christian concept. Like it took over many other things and put over them not only a Christian "veneer", but spirit. Because Christianity was born into a very concrete cultural context which it was not bent on destroying, but on taking useful elements from it.

In the ceremonial of conferring knighthood the Church shared, through the blessing of the sword, and by the virtue of this blessing chivalry assumed a religious character. In early Christianity, although Tertullian\'s teaching that Christianity and the profession of arms were incompatible was condemned as heretical, the military career was regarded with little favour. In chivalry, religion and the profession of arms were reconciled. This change in attitude on the part of the Church dates, according to some, from the Crusades, when Christian armies were for the first time devoted to a sacred purpose. Even prior to the Crusades, however, an anticipation of this attitude is found in the custom called the "Truce of God". It was then that the clergy seized upon the opportunity offered by these truces to exact from the rough warriors of feudal times a religious vow to use their weapons chiefly for the protection of the weak and defenseless, especially women and orphans, and of churches. Chivalry, in the new sense, rested on a vow; it was this vow which dignified the soldier, elevated him in his own esteem, and raised him almost to the level of the monk in medieval society. As if in return for this vow, the Church ordained a special blessing for the knight in the ceremony called in the Pontificale Romanum, "Benedictio novi militis." At first very simple in its form, this ritual gradually developed into an elaborate ceremony. Before the blessing of the sword on the altar, many preliminaries were required of the aspirant, such as confession, a vigil of prayer, fasting, a symbolical bath, and investiture with a white robe, for the purpose of impressing on the candidate the purity of soul with which he was to enter upon such a noble career. Kneeling, in the presence of the clergy, he pronounced the solemn vow of chivalry, at the same time often renewing the baptismal vow; the one chosen as godfather then struck him lightly on the neck with a sword (the dubbing) in the name of God and St. George, the patron of chivalry.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Chivalry

Originally Posted by Ginnungagap

Martyrs cannot always be taken as heroic figures. It really depends on what they are being martyr'd for. It is heroic to stick to your word and your beliefs, but generally in societies that encourage heroism.. to fight for your beliefs, rather than just submissively and fatalistically accept death, is of greater virtue.

The principle of martyrdom starts when you are willing to dedicate yourself, to sacrifice yourself for some cause, the ultimate sacrifice, that is, martyrdom sensu stricto, being only one of the possible outcomes thereof. The sense of sacrifice lacking entirely, as it does in the modern world, people become obedient cowards and slaves of the system, not willing to do anything for any noble cause, not even for the defense of their own family.