[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Ha ! Again this debate about the Frenchness of Occitania.

Well, not really. It is just that your words were causing a little confusion.

It seems to be become reccurent between us.

Ad aeternum.

Anyway, I will just add that the term Francia just mean "the territory where the Franks exercise their authority", so, like you can see in the map posted by Carnyx, it could have been a very large land (and so, not only Northern Gaul).

Gallia Celtica then?

Yes, but Franks (with Clovis) conquered Aquitania in 507 (battle of Vouillé) and Provence in 536. So, there was also a Frankish presence there since those times.

And that's also a reason why I mentioned what's to be taken into account.

When is the "Frank", a Frank and when is he a Gallo-Roman in the Frankish administration?

At a time, the Franks used the terms Gothia and Hispania indistinctively. Isidore of Seville and his brother are consistently referred as "Goths" in nearly all texts. Except for the history books which, more realistically, refer to them as Hispano-Goths. However their father was a Hispano-Roman, not a Goth. The Dux Claudius is mentioned as the dux militaris who led the Gothic army to the greatest defeat of the Franks. Yet he was a Hispano-Roman dux provinciae of the Lusitania. And if he was the commander, how many of those "Goths" would be Goths?

It is absolutely necessary to understand the momentum. The populations of Gallia and Hispania had long forgotten their tribal monarchies, at large. It was Roman imperial administration that they were used to. And though the effectiveness of such administraton would never return, The Franks and the Goths had suplanted the imperial power and therefore the Roman (Gallo-Roman, Hispano-Roman) people of the administration had to look now at Aquisgran, Tolosa or Toledo.