[Menydh]

Originally Posted by Lutiferre

I've heard the Spanish referred to as Celtic many times, but never quite understood it.

From what I've understood, the Spanish are primarily Romanized Iberians, previously having a mixed native and Celtic La Tene culture from the invading Celts, who later emigrated to other parts of Europe?

It is not even certain who the Iberians were, if they were natives who developed a particular culture, or if they arrived from somewhere else. Both the Celtic and the Iberian element in the Peninsula expanded under a model of cultural demic-diffusion, meeting at some points and overlapping, and their respective boundaries often being not all that clear.

For example, it is not known if the Basques were a people like the Iberians proper, and if the Iberian language would be like the Basque one.

Also, it is not possible to adscribe all of the Celtic element in Iberia to only one source. In an oversimplified way, I would make a division between central and littoral Celts.

The Celtiberians were not a mixed lot of Celts + Iberians, like the name would suggest. They were actually a set of central Celtic tribes.

Look at the attached map. Bear in mind that the map is far from being exact in the boundaries, or even in the expansion. For example, the pre-Celtic, Indo-European overlap north of the Douro/Duero river (faded yellow over light brown, NW of the Peninsula) looks suspiciously as an agenda to link the Lusitanians to the Callaecians. Also, the boundaries of the Celtiberian tribes are known to me to be farther into the East in the territory of the Edetanians: only 33km NW from the city of Sagunto, there is the city of Segorbe which was Celtiberian. That's so far proved by archaelogy, but lately I read an article in a local newspaper about the people of a village in the area, which had been DNA tested for a genetic problem derived from depigmentation, caused by a mutation that developed in Central Europe in Pre-Historic times. However, on that map the area of Celtiberian expansion would arrive approximately to Teruel.

For comparison, I've also attached a screenshot of a road map, showing the location of Sagunto and Segorbe, with the distance marked in green.

What you call a native population (romanized or not) mixed with Celt invaders is what is usually called as 'Celtic', if the language lasted.

And what about the Germanic invasion and control of Spain?

No such invasion or control, strictly speaking.

You are referring to the Goths, who did not invade Iberia. They settled in Iberia under the terms of the Roman Hospitalitas. And though the native romanicized population rejected them, only a few hostile attempts are known to have happened and most accepted their presence as federated troops of the Empire. Unfortunately, Rome in her decadence had leaned to the Eastern part of the Empire, leaving the provinces of the Western Empire devoided of Imperial troops.

I've said no control, because the Goths were unable to even control themselves. The whole period leaves much to be desire and the end of a large series of civil wars and royal assassinations (the morbus Gothorum; out of 33 kings, 15 died assassinated) was toppled with a treacherous alliance with the Muslim Governor of Nortwest Africa, and the Islamicization of Hispania.

Others like the Vandals and their federated allies, the Alans, did invade and raid through Iberia. Until they were defeated by the Goths, who had been called into Hispania by Rome for this matter, and pushed towards Northern Africa. And the Suebians, who settled in NW Spain.

What ethnological significance does it pose? In any case, does it not pose as much significance as the Celtic invasions/control?

In terms of 'Germanic' influence, little if any at all. I'd say none.

For a start, we are playing here with terms that acquire a certain significance with the theories of the XIXth century Romanticism. Call it Germanic and Germanicism, or Celtic and Celticism.

The Germanic adscription of the Goths means little. They had origins similar to other Germanic tribes, and they spoke a language of the trunk of the Germanic family (though arguably much of it when they arrived in Iberia). But like nearly all other East Germanics, they had an identity of their own which made them different enough. For one thing, they were a semi-nomadic people looking forward to settle in a land. They had also assimilated a degree of romanicization. Remember, that a worthy Goth would want to be a Roman. Only a worthless Roman would want to be a Goth.

For better or for worse, we do have a Gothic heritage. But not Germanic.

Incidentally, elements that have been used to characterize the Spanish, such as that temperamental character of us which idiots call "Mediterranean", is most likely a Gothic trait. Or the call of blood for revenge, in matters of honour.

Also, not to forget that the Spanish character was forged in the long centuries of the Reconquista.