[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

I wasn't speaking about that. I was pointing to the rejection of our past. In my opinion, people like you, who are ashamed of christianity and consider it some kind of cosmic error, are ultimately ashamed of being european.

Don't you find it interesting that those societies of the dark ages, like medieval christian societies, for instance, who based their worldview, their laws and their moral code on lies (faith) and wishful thinking, were societies that functioned much better than ours?

To first chunk - first of all, your assertion that anti-Christian Europeans are ultimately ashamed of being European, is very very incorrect. I'm proud of how well Europeans have managed all though of the influence of a foreign religion. I am proud of our way of turning something negative into something good; of learning of our mistakes and of our way of correcting such historical mistakes. That is also, what most people on this site are trying to do right now: correct many European's and Europe's as a society current mistake in being anti-nationalistic.

I know you werent speaking about that, but I was drawing an analogy between one instance of what you call a "rejection of the path", and what I referred to as evolution.

I also tried to empathize that the primitive predecessor in a development or process of evolution doesnt necessarily have to be rejected nor admired; simply acknowledged as the originator that led to the current state of things - and whether the current state is good or bad, is as you showed a good example of, by expressing your admiration of some elements in the preceding society (like I, by the way, also did) - subjective.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

I do not follow your logic. Wouldn't it be better to use Christianism instead, taking into account that Christianism is alive while paganism died hundreds of years ago? Oh, wait, I forgot that Christianism is a tool of the Zionists for hiding the real facts of the Holocaust! My mistake

I know you were just joking, but the influence of Zionism on the world is often ridiculed as conspiracy theories when mentioned - and it is more than just that, and a lot of people know that. Paganism never completely died, at least not Nordic paganism, theres always been a few groups trying to keep it alive. It did cease to be the main religion when Christianity came, thats not the same as dieing out though. If that was the case, it would be very hard to reconstruct the ancient traditions

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

You are getting paranoid. What do think about this ecuation:

Progressive regression of nationalism = Progressive decline of christianity.

There were nationalist christians for more that 1000 years and when their faith starts to fade, nationalism also fades. Coincidence?

I dont agree. Nationalism started fading before faith. Faith started fading with the youth spawned by the anti-racists, who started to reject faith in a much higher degree and question society.

Christianity is good for the Zionist agenda, because of the favors Jews get from Christian society. Hell, as I referred to, Christianity has always been the main power supporting Zionism. Its not a coincidence that the western leaders that supported the Mandate for a Jewish State in the late 1940's were Christian.

At that point in time, the first post-war years, it was CRUCIAL for the Zionist cause to get support by Christian countries; if everyone had been atheists at that point in time, there would be no Israel today.

Today, Zionists may support the atheist movement, I dont know. Its less critical for the West to be predominantly Christian today, anyway, after the Jews have gotten Israel and their 10,000 nukes or whatever.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

Ok, and what do you think about what I said on my previous post about the hate professed towards jews in all catholic nations for about 1000 years? What was that, a remnant of our pagan past?

You say that hate towards jews was based on ignorance of the true essence of Christian doctrine. They were supposed to worship the jews, but they didn't get it, right?

Well maybe if I didn´t live in a country that was nationalist, catholic and officially anti-semitic until 1975 I would even believe you

No, as I said, a combination of many things. A tyrannic Christian fundamentalist empire, that assumes superiority, and doesnt invoke any perspective or understanding of the historical roots of their own religious affinities in all their sentiments.

The Holy Crusades and so on, are a perfect example of the unbiblical nature of the actions of Christians. Based on what? Fundamentalism, and hostility to non-Christians, based on ignorance.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

So in your opinion Aquinas, Dante, Michelangelo, etc, were a bunch of retards who didn't notice that they were whorsipping a foreign god. So maybe, after all, we the europeans are not that intelligent and glorious, are we? We spent more than 1500 years fooled by the zionists, but finally, in this age of enlightment we were able to liberate ourselves.

I will pose another ecuation:

Rise of atheism since 1789 = Rise to power of jews.

Coincidence?

No, thats an unfair extrapolation of what I said. And quite unconstructive for this discussion, might I add.

I dont think its fair to say even that there was a "rise of atheism since 1789", since society was generally Christian for much longer than that. Your average citizen of Europe was no philosopher, after all. The rise of power to the Jews is more correlated with the events scattered throughout the 19th and beginning/mid 20th century, than any other timeframe, like I explained earlier in this post.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

Are you insinuating that all the true european christian geniouses were actually atheists deep in their hearts?

Some were undoubtedly atheists. However, it is impossible to deny that many great thinkers were Christian or part Christian. I dont blame them for that, I blame society, but it would be foolish to ascribe the great thinkers of Europe to Christianity; as if they wouldnt have been great thinkers without Christianity, with European forms of paganism. And that is especially true, with some of the earliest Greek thinkers, that had Greek paganism and Hellenic gods.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

My main point of disagreement with your assertions is that you say that we have evolved towards good, and I believe that we are at our lowest. We are at the brink of disintegration as a civilization, we've lost our values, our dignity, our pride. We've lost everything that's metaphysical, while ruling in the phisical realm. We are the kings of technology, I agree. But that means nothing to me. All the glory of europe was conquered not through technology, but through the spirit, be it pagan or christian.

Thats not what I said or meant. This is pretty much the same as you said before, and I answered:

Originally Posted by Degenuicide

That wasnt directly what I said. In some respects, we are beyond them, intellectually. In other respects, such as nationalism, we are behind them, ultimately due to the Zionist influence on Europe and America imposed by Christianity, and the associated cultural developments leading to progressivism and multiculturalism.

And to that effect, I agree with what you said here:

We are at the brink of disintegration as a civilization, we've lost our values, our dignity, our pride. We've lost everything that's metaphysical, while ruling in the phisical realm.

But I dont think Christianity is the way out of this black hole. I think re-discovering our true European values and culture is, and ignoring any Semitic or otherwise foreign influence that might corrupt our future cultural developments.

That we embraced Christianity and adapted it to our own culture, is no secret. But that is no better than Europeans converting to Islam, a foreign Semitic religion. That doesnt mean I reject every cultural development there has been in Europe while we have had Christianity, because we were after all still Europeans, and we are good at turning bad things into good things. But we dont have to, any longer.