[Lutiferre]

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

Would you please elaborate on that? What reason?

All I said after it.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

I find it philosophically unacceptable that a civilization must reject more that 1500 years of its own History in order to evolve.

Then you probably also find it philosophically hard to accept that its taken 4 billion years for our planet to develop human life, and subsequently tens of thousands of years for civilizations to emerge. But thats how this world works. I also, didnt claim that absolutely nothing good came out of it.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

Why? What advantages has reason over faith? I consider civilizations based on faith as well-organized and powerful, they usually fight as one. However, our societies based on reason just breed selfish cowards, unable to fight for anything but their own good.

I was referring to an ultimate advantage; like in reason over faith, or faith over reason. Faith can be good for a society as long as you dont reject reason (and that has happened numerous times; just see intelligent design over evolution).

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

I think that if paganism is dead nowadays, it's for a good reason. You cannot seriously think that you can artificially replace christianity with paganism.

Paganism is near extinct, a pure piece of European culture. So is European culture and European people if we dont do all we can to preserve it. Thats why we need to revive European paganism; and thats why we need neopaganism.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

From my point of view, our ancestors were still able to relate to a supramundane reality. We are not, and we disguise our inability as progress, we despise our ancestors because they were fooled, they based their lives on lies. We know better than them.

That wasnt directly what I said. In some respects, we are beyond them, intellectually. In other respects, such as nationalism, we are behind them, ultimately due to the Zionist influence on Europe and America imposed by Christianity, and the associated cultural developments leading to progressivism and multiculturalism.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

Can you prove that? Some quotation from the Gospels, maybe? It would be difficult to find one, since Jesus spends the whole Gospels criticizing jews, their hypocritical ways, to the point that the only act of violence of Jesus in the Gospels is against those jewish merchants that were selling their goods in the temple. I find Jesus to be quite anti-jewish. Most true catholics are openly anti-semitic (as in anti-jewish), and jews have traditionally been considered deicidal in catholic coutries, and thus hated. I find nothing pro-zionistic in traditional cristianism.

There are lots of quotations in the bible, the book of Christianity. Whether it be the Gospel or the rest of the bible is less relevant. You must know this yourself. Jesus was not anti-Jewish, he was simply a reformist Judaist.

Research Biblical Zionism.
ICEJ: Biblical Zionism
ICEJ: Position

Concerning anti-semitism in people having embraced Semitic religions; thats a combination of many things, among others ignorance and the fact that Europeans never truly wanted to embrace Semitic culture. That there is nothing pro-Zionistic in Christian culture, is a lie.

Maybe you havent heard of Christian Zionism before?
Christian Zionism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Christian-Zionism.org: Arab-Israeli Conflict - Christian Zionism - Bible - Israel - Zionism

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

Two last things:

1- Do you know that the greek alphabet is based on the phoenician one which is, well..., semitic? Shall we reject this spurious alphabet, and all the poetry, philosophy and history that has been built upon it?

2- What are, in your opinion, the greatest achievements of atheistic civilization? I would suggest Free market, Jackson Pollock and homosexual marriage

1 - and Arabs invented our current number system and algebra. But what did they utilize it for? Islam? We went to space. And anyway, the Phoenician alphabet ultimately derives from Egyptian hieroglyphs, and you and I ultimately derive from a single celled organism. It would be incorrect to assume that current Europe and its culture and achievements came out of the blue - it derives from more primitive cultures in Europe; and before humans more primitive species, and the Greek alphabet derives from a foreign, more primitive alphabet. Does that make Semitic religion/theism, mythology, tradition and culture acceptable for European nationalists? I think not.

2 - You cant possibly measure such things, how could you measure who is truly an atheist and who isnt? And it would be impossible then to quantify which grouping has made bigger achievements in society. But I can assure you, atheists over time has achieved much of the scientific progress in the world, because people educated in sciences and reason are often more likely to be atheists. Lots of thinkers and philosophers have also historically rejected theism. But I dont really care about that question.

Originally Posted by Gonzalvus

When we talk about big numbers, societies, civilizations, I think religion is an essential factor. As I said, I reached that conclussion reading History, it's not based in any religious prejudice.

Why is the Islamic civilization a menace to us? Because they are strongly religious, and that makes them powerful as a group. If they weren't religious, they wouldn't be more than one of the many third world cultures in this planet, as menacing to us as australian aboriginals.

Applying this to our case, I believe that much of our greatness as a civilization is based in our common religion: Christianism. Without Christianism we would have been turkified hundreds of years ago.

I agree that faith can unite a people and give it mental strength and thus an effort over other peoples and cultures. But you seriously have to look at the consequences of something like Islam. The consequences are that they are still living in the Dark Ages. Look at their society. They have not evolved. They have not the level of thought or technology we have, and they wont.

Something like fundamental Islam and Christianity is very damaging to a society.

Instead, look at neopaganism. Scandinavian paganism was what gave the Vikings their mental strength and efforts in war over enemies - why not invoke true European religion instead of foreign religions? I truly dont sympathize with any opposition to neopaganism. It was mere historical details that led to Christianity's dominance over European paganism, and we could've gotten the same societal benefits and less damage from our own faith, if we had only kept it.

At any level, we should choose our own paganism over foreign Semitic religions. Many nationalists do this, at least here in Scandinavia. We are lucky to have our original, own, complete European paganism. If we didnt, we would have to embrace Christianity to have a faith, but we dont.