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Originally Posted by Sifjar
Historically speaking all the great empire collapses because of '' economic crises'' Well do you remember couples of years ago how much KR against USD? Well look at now how much KR against Euro,and the Swedish '' consumptions has increased because most of the trading are done within EU
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Are you making an argument that implies that a high level of consumption is absolutely necessary for a land to prosper? That could be a separate discussion of its own, in economics, if there isn't one already in that forum.
The fact that we are on a relative high economically compared to a couple of years ago - what exactly does it have to do with Sweden being a part of the EU? The US dollar has gone down.
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Originally Posted by Sifjar
Well at time it might look really good to moderate isolationist because you're able to trade freely without any problems with the bloc, no pass, importantly'' Sovereignty'' about Sweden in every accept and also other countries in the EU
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Souvereignity? That's what we stake for being a part of the EU. Haven't you noted all the changes made to Swedish society since the debate on the EU started? Our corrupt politicians decided even before we joined to adapt to EU norms, so you have to go way back to see what I mean. Or you can focus on pretty much any of the major steps in which the EU has evolved, to see that souvereignity is something that the EU took from us. Or we gave it away. A part of the Monnet strategy was to keep the peoples of Europe ignorant regarding this development.
No passport needed? Is this good or bad? I think it's bad, since it means less knowledge and less control of what flows in and out.
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Originally Posted by Sifjar
Well can you named one organization that has been a driving force other that the EU?
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The countries in Norden used to cooperate. And as I said, Sweden had trading agreements with many of the nations of Europe. She had the choice of maintaining all the good relations and still staying out of the political experiment now known as the EU.
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Originally Posted by Sifjar
Historically speaking it has been for the last 50 years, but of cos Germany has more political power because of German industry. So again as you can see the economic of a state is important for the survival of a society however France and Belgium also the main reason why Eu exits right. So what is Sweden in the middle of this ? If you can't win your enemy you must join them. All the Swedish industries been moved out side European Union, how are small country like Sweden could accumulate '' capitals'' without any trading and no industries and only high taxes ? Immigrant flux is the impact of other elements from inside and outside not because the EU.
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Western Germany paid up for Eastern Germany, and perhaps for some others too in a way. I'd like to hear Aptrgangr out on this one. But if you call that power, it's just your choice of words. The de facto power they have - isn't it more related to how numerous the population is?
All that talk about what would happen to Sweden if we didn't join, as well as the talk of all the wonders that would happen if we joined, proved to be just talk, or rather lies created by corrupt politicians to force people to think along their lines. There were even those who admitted that. Stig Malm was one of them. He threated the Swedish people with poverty, and later on admitted that it was just a threat.
Immigrant flux: I do believe you are wrong on this one. Just because Sweden tries to be more 'welcoming' than any other nation, it does not mean that the EU does not affect the problem of immigration. It bribes nations to take immigrants, and it punishes those who refuse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sifjar
Could you think of any country that wouldn't be forced in the EU beside UK? Well Switzerland is forced into Eu policy. Well I'm sure you have your own reason against the expansion of Eu, but we all have our own opinion don't we ?
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I believe that some nations were forced to a greater extent than others, but not for the reasons you claim. I apply to other forum members to help us sort this one question out, for I'm not entirely sure.
As for the case of Sweden, we were never forced by economical factors or any other real reason that I know of. Our politicians forced us with massive pressure and propaganda, to which quite some people yielded. But the distrust with the EU is much greater now that people have seen what it brings.