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Old Friday, October 12th, 2007
bombadillo bombadillo is offline
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Default Re: Capitalism and Socialism [split from: American Republican Candidate Ron Paul]

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Originally Posted by Plethon View Post
I heard that in many countries Social Democrats and other leftists, when in power, tend to ally themselves with the big business (Capitalists) and crush the middle class.
Some truth in that: In Scandinavia, there was a loose compact between social democrats and big capital (every left-leaning political party or alliance that isn't outright communist has to arrive at some accommodation with big capital). Social democrats have been comfortable with monopoly capital, which stifles small- and medium-sized business. This compact lasted into the 70s, and then slowly started to unravel: big capital -- under pressure from global competition -- couldn't and didn't want to pay the social welfare bill anymore. This unravelling was more pronounced in the UK and USA (with politicians like Reagan and Thatcher leading the way), but it has also occurred in continental Europe, with left-leaning parties helpless in the face of the current wind. And also too ideologically bankrupt to propose anything to counter what is taking place.

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The money for the welfare benefits comes from the big capitalists, who are more than happy to hand it out to the government, because they like living in such a society in which they won't have too much to worry about the comptetition of the small or medium-size businesses. As they are extremely rich, they are able even to stand high taxes without suffering serious damage. If they fail, the government would subsidize them anyway.
Indeed, but that era is now over, and lasted roughly thirty or forty years from 1945 to the mid- (or late-) 70s. Now it's dog-eat-dog in today's global capitalism.

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On the other hand, the big business produces many very cheap products which poor people are able to buy, the mass consumer goods. So they get back the money they handed out to the state in the form of taxes, with very possibly a great surplus. So, it boils down to promoting poverty and welfare, for the sake of mass consumption.
True to an extent, but not cheap -- monopoly capital is neither efficient nor innovative, relying instead of its privileged position in the market (aided and abetted by government tariffs and government contracts to maintain its place).

Last edited by bombadillo; Friday, October 12th, 2007 at 19:45. Reason: typographical mistakes
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